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pending legislation we should all be concerned about

Guest MissTheresa

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Why is a thread so off topic not in the Off Topic section? Why keep an issue so potentially devisive here in the Fur Den?


Would posting something about a Fur Coat make take this thread off topic?

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i started this in off topic ask the mod who moved it. although i think it was explained as being important to all....

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It's not important to me. I am here to talk about fur, not about politics.


A few months ago there was quite a row in the OT forum when some chose to criticize certain countries. A member of one of those countries became offended and left the board for a time.


Now, we have a thread talking about politics: one of the most devisive topics of conversation, and members feel free to generalize the Republican party and to a lesser extent Christians [fundamentalists].


The mods are supposedly here to keep topics like this under control...not to move them to fit their own special interests. I thought our common special interest here was FUR.

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The reason this got moved to the main fur den( by the mod who chose to )is that this bill in has caused certain things to be set in motion that COULD affect this site in very drastic ways. Its allready caused problems at FFG .

The Mods here are aware and they do understand the importance of this topic.

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We MODs feel that making members aware that they very well could loose their ability to have sites like this is very important.


If one day you simply could not log on and you lost this site forever, would you wonder why someone did not try to do something?


We are. And, the first thing is to let our members know.



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Linda's explanation is right on target - this topic is of great importance to all of those who view this website. It's affecting others as beautiful furs pointed out. Our members need to know what's going on and that message is delivered to a wider audience here. People can always skip the topic if they aren't interested.



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Theresa originally posted this in Off Topic, but given what has happened over at the Fur Fashion Guide Forum in the last 36 hours, I think it is a topic that should be seen by many more folks as it will impinge on your rights here and on other forums if it is passed.


Maybe now is the time for some folks to make a new stand for freedom.


Firstly - Please read the entire thread before plumping out with demands or accusations.


Secondly - no one is holding a gun to your heads forcing you to read this. If you do not want to view the thread, simply ignore it.


Thirdly - Most of the members here have close to 5 years of history together from both The Fur Den and Melody. There have been some incidents which have deeply disturbed some remaining members, while others have left because of these particular events. This is a central topic with red lines through our recent, present and probably future history. This is the reason the thread is here. We're not changing news for an entire community because some people can't be self-critical on their own interests versus others. You are not the omnipotent center of the universe.


If you are mispleased with the decision which has been made here, or the conduct of any of the moderators, send a proper and civilized complaint in form of either a PM or an email to the administrators of the site (AKcoyote, FrBrGr or White Fox).


If we can not keep this discussion within the boundaries of mutual respect and co-existence of all the different interests on this site, the topic will be locked.

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thanks for speaking up too everyone... it would seem apparent why this issue was important to all people living in the usa, but i suppose a lot of people just want to ignore reality. i guess if you don't want to hear it, stop reading the thread.

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Just wanted to explain Earendil's post.


We MODs don't often get in a position where we both take action on a situation at the same time. Surprised it doesn't happen more often.


We both were reacting to a New Member who's second post was to order us to remove this thread. WE both acted and then realized when we went to the MODs forum to leave notes what had happened.


I responded by deleting the post and sending the newbie a PM thinking it would be less embarrassing. But, I do think Earendil's method is probably the best.


Since foxfan could have misunderstood that this was directed at him, I wanted to explain.





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These are scare tactics by the powers that be...

They go in cycles..

relax please...


just do nothing shady and you are ok

(tell the truth!) Dragon

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If you can define what shady might be then, since definitions are so hard to come by.... maybe that would be wise. But then again, that will just be one opinion out of so many. I never got any definitions from anyone I've posed that question to yet - tell me what is obscene.


I think doing nothing isn't an option for some of us, either. This is very real, and does effect people already. I understand that scare tactics are used everyday, but when laws are already in effect, it isn't a scare tactic for those who can't afford proper defense - it's truth.


I've been on the receiving end of not having proper defense, and it isn't an equal system let me tell you. The last instance was with a snooping, threatening landlord, but I couldn't get an attorney to help me. Odd that no one wanted to defend a dominatrix, eh, but that is just what I've gotten many times when I needed help... nothing and told to "suck it up" (that's verbatim from the last attorney).


So when is it ok to do something? When the DOJ's search lights hit your door? Yes, things do go in cycles, but that doesn't mean that they improve with time necessarily... a cycle can spiral downwards quickly.


It's only been one year since 2257 was ammended, rather quietly too; we already have two proposed bills to strengthen 2257 on the agenda. I would say that is going downhill, but that is just my opinion. I have been in and around the "sex industry" for over 11 years now, and modeled since I was 18. I have made it my business to pay attention and help try to alert people to the rights that are being stripped away. I notice that many people, and more importantly adult sites, are non-compliant with 2257, so many people are ignorant and I won't foster that.

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Foxfan et al


I guess I have a reputation of being a stirrer here... and yeah, I like it... stirring that is... not so much the reputation.


As Earendil said, there was a reason for my moving the link from Off Topc to the main den: more folks read the Den's posts and this is something that will effect you either directly or indirectly, whether from the US, EU or SE Asia. Back at melody, someone once said that the Moderators were a club. Well, if so, we have been rather a fractious lot of late... with me the main reason because I thought that folks were overreacting.


Then I saw what was happening at Fur Fashion Guide's forum and went back and re-read PROPERLY the initial post by Theresa. It was at that stage that I made the decision to move this to this forum.


I also did a bit of thinking outside the square, in relation to what could be imposed on the owner's of this server and what their reaction could/would be.


We haven't gone as far a FFG has with its imposition of new rules about link postings... maybe we should, but this way you and all members can see the reasoning behind such an action. It is not a knee-jerk reaction, but one that will be given serious consideration and much debate, because the main purpose of this forum is to allow the exchange of information between users, and that information can at times include links to "unsavoury thoughts".


Is it an attack against republicans and fundamentalists? Is the legislation an attack on my rights? (this'll get me into trouble) Is it another example of attacking the US? Is the legislation an attack on YOUR rights?


Whether directly or indirectly, the answer to all the above is YES!


At one time, if the US economy sneezed, the world held its breath to find out if it were just a sneeze or a full blown flu.


Unless this forum is moved offshore (out of direct US jurisdiction) it will always be pray to the whims of those who would like us all to be in their image. Even moving it offshore is no guarantee of freedom from that or similar interference.


We can only 'pray' that wiser heads prevail.


Thus endeth the lecture

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Mr. B;


Bad legislation is blind to nationalities and yes it is an attack on the Republican Party and the Fundamentalists.


They're the ones stiring the poop. Can't seem to put two rational thoughts together to make a coherent piece of legislation. Uuupps .. oxymoron!!


Anyone from anywhere that wants to criticise the current President or the party in power let me buy 'em a beer!!



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I will first say that all politics involved here, my views are from an average middle of the road guy. I don't vote for the party, or the main message, yet base mine on the points that I agree on whether liberal or conservative. My first and foremost point that I look for is whether I will be heard by everyone in DC by way of my representative, or to get smaller my state capitol or city gov't. And my second is how will this affect me, and my regaurds for the constitution.


The greatness and weakness of a democracy like here and certain EU countries, is that there is usually a "Bi-cameral" set of representatives from all over the country to think, process, and decide issues, bills, and laws like the one that is being talked about now. And there are checks and balances within the whole system. So one side can't stick it to the other. BUT, as is the case now in the US, when the head of the country whether it's the President of the US, Prime Minister of Canada/Britain, AND the MAJORITY of the representatives share the same party line, it can make it almost impossible for the C&B's to be effectivly enacted and cause challenge to a bill that is going through the process of becoming law.


As for this Bill that is on the agenda. The premise is appealing to a lot involved in Washington. Child safety is a concern, I feel it to. Had it NOT been for this forum, I woulda never known that the drafters of the Bill were lumping this into one Major Internet Indecency Act. Going after the "records departments" of porn producers/distributors, YES that could even include forums such as this for "distributing" it via linkage or photos that aren't accounted for and documented.


It's a lot like what this country has gone through with the War on Terror/War with Iraq. The "Premises" seemed great! GET THE BAD GUY!!! After the WTC attack, the bad guy was Bin Laden, still is... But, he's nowhere to be found. when that hunt was going nowhere FAST, guess who had WMD's (Weapons of Mass Destruction) hmmm, IRAQ? YES that is correct. Most notably, a NEW/old Bad Guy Saddam Hussein. Cool man, got get him then, Mr. President! Shock and Awe?!!!!? Aw hell yeah in and out....SWEET!!! No, we are gonna "stay the course..." and establish a New American Colon... errr IRAQ! But, the hidden agendas do seem to be there, and ARE. Rising oil prices/gas prices... Whatever they may be.


This is a crucial time for the Free World right now. Should we be TOO Safe? How Safe are We? What are the real dangers out there? Should the internet be the main point of focus? Should we do more as PEOPLE to make this world a more harmonized place? Should we let the government do whatever they want?


What's our place here in the Fur Den in all this? I'll tell you where it is. By being the great people that I have come to know over the last few years. Fur aside for the moment, we are all kindred spirits, and genuine people. If not, I wouldn't be here typing this. As far as citizens, we are all individuals too. Do what you think you can do. For me it is to VOTE! And listen to and try and inform people of what is going on.


Thank you Denizens, you may now return to your regularly scheduled "Fur Programming "

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I have to say, just to air my stance on politics in general, that I am not for one party or the other, rather think the whole process needs help, to say the least. I never intend to stir up derision here about political parties/affiliations or our country, the land of the free. :-k



There is an article on the .xxx issue:




Also, this is the other legislation that I was trying to recall... I found my notes on it from months ago. This is a bit lengthy, but worth the read, and is from a reliable source:



Office of Legislative Affairs

P.O. Box 907, Cool, CA 95614

Ph: 800-476-7813 Fx: 530-885-8990

[email protected] http://www.freespeechcoalition.com




Comparison of HR 3746 (Pence) and S2140 (Hatch)

Drafted by Kat Sunlove, Legislative Affairs Director



S2140, introduced in late December by Senator Orrin Hatch (Utah) with support from Senator Sam Brownback (Indiana), is an attempt by Senate Republicans who support Congressman Pence

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This thread unfortunately cannot separate out addressing what is happening to our ability to be online and politics. It is these very actions that are threatening our rights.


So, to separate out the Right wing fundamentalists in the Republican Party is impossible.


I am a Republican. At least I am for what the Republican party stood for long ago. At first I thought I would just leave the party. But, where would I go? The Democrats offer no leadership that I can see. The Libertarians still are too small to matter. So, instead I chose to address those that have taken over MY party. I am not alone in this position.


I was raised Fundamentalist, so I can speak of this without throwing stones "over-the-fence".


This thread is to make the members aware that we and all sites like us are a risk. Before changes can occur in society you must start with awareness. A few of the MODs on this site decided to make certain that MissT's message was placed where it could be heard and you realized that even Dragon and Cookie were having to make major changes in their rules.


The very first thing that you can do as members is to continue to do as you have been doing. And, that is:


PLEASE be careful what pictures you post. And, that the narrative passes code as well. Think how terrible you would feel if you were the one that took this site down.


Second, if you have something you would like to post that is questionable, send it to one of the MODs and we will check it out for you.


Third, if you see a post that is questionable, please post that on the thread your concern and let a MOD know.


As we MODs have mentioned before, you members are just incredible on following the guidelines set by the site. Thank you so much.


Just know that the Admins and MODs are doing EVERYTHING we possibly can to keep us within the rules of our server and within the guidelines as we know them.


Thank you,



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Well said, Linda, and a great way to bring this discussion to conclusion. While cogent points have been made and a few of them even related to The Fur Den and its purposes, we are straying from the original intent of Miss Theresa's post. Suffice it to say that when the Code of Conduct was constructed, it was with purpose. It wasn't the result of a whim. For the most part, all of you have been model citizens and have adhered to the Code. For that, I, White Fox, AKcoyote and the Board of Moderators, led by Mr Barguzin, are extremely grateful. Without everyone's cooperation, this site would not be the largest and most active site of its kind on the internet. It is a community effort, though, and we rely upon everyone to make this thing work.


Thanks to everyone for a job very well done!


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