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Ignorance - Is it bliss???


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I never ceased to be amazed at what people are prepared to believe and what is discarded.


We all sit and read that endless diatribe about animals being skinned alive and all appreciate what a dodgy story it is.


Anyhow, I came by this interesting article :




It is a good read, not necessarily Fur, but going some way to showing a middle ground approach to animals makes sense. Can I convince our local receptionist

who is totally convinced a documentary she has seen on TV is the word of God.....nope I can't. My article was labelled as - quote - "Crap", and on her merry way

she goes with blinkered thoughts.


I am happy to listen and discuss different ideas, some people will never change...how frustrating.


I thought it might prove an interesting read for us all.



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Thank you auzmink! I have only perused the article. It really caught my attention as I interviewed for a job at Oregon State (and I don't live too far from OSU now). At any rate, it does indeed look like a good read. Kind of shoots down veganism.


One of my favorite stories about that sort of thing came from a friend who was the animal quarters coordinator. He went to an animal rights talk at Syracuse University. The speaker said that "we should all wear cotton-based clothing." My friend pointed out that clearing forests or natural terrain results in killing thousands of species of plants and animals for the growth of only one species (cotton). Ultimately the speaker said: "You're just trying to make me look bad aren't you?" My friend's response "No I think you're doing that well enough on your own." He got a lot of dirty looks so he left quickly.


At any rate, thanks again!



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Interesting i never thought about it. I know because i gardened a little years ago when i was younger. I always assumed that the little animals would run from the big machines used in the production of our food. Maybe some would die but not the numbers presented here.




I red the entire paper except the credits at the end,

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I honestly think that most people would make better decisions about life by rolling a pair of dice!


People who believe that everybody should become vegan are neurotic.

Modern farming techniques allow the United States to be one of the top three food exporters in the world. That means that we produce food for ourselves then we send what's left to feed people in other countries. If we didn't do that, a lot of people in poor countries might starve to death.

(Canad, Russia and the E.U. are food exporters, too.)


In developed countries of Europe and North America, most middle class families spend 20% to 30% of their total income for food. In poor countries of Africa and South America, families spend up to 75% of their income on food. If the price of food suddenly doubled, fat Americans would still be able to live while poor people couldn't afford food even if they could get it. If those rabid, vegan evangelists had their way a huge proportion of the world's population would die of starvation.


They have got a lot of balls to force their views on others when they have the luxury to pick and choose.

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The Pros and Cons here...


There is one real "Con" or two here in the argument. i.e. It takes a LOT more acreage to feed a cow and bring it to market than it does to feed vegetables. i.e. If you own a hundred acres and can produce X number of steers and heifers on it, then, you can feed more people than those acres could feed with vegetables. If I didn't misread the write-up, he did not take that into consideration. I also believe that he over estimated the number of animal deaths from "Combines". i.e. farm machinery. I've driven those combines and machines hundreds of times. Lastly, ever heard of how our Native folks died in HUGE numbers when we Europeans came across the ocean and spread our diseases? Why did their Native diseases not spread to the Europeans? That is because Natives had fewer diseases. Because they did not use horses and animals to such a great extent. Sometimes they could catch them. But not nearly as much as Europeans. Such has been proven true. They had little resistance. Huge companies gave them blankets they knew were coughed on by people sick with lethal diseases, etc. The price they paid was terrible. Sometimes everyone in the town was wiped out. Due in great part to them not having had animals in captivity before European arrival.




On the opposite side.


1. Let's be practical. Is everyone in the world going to give up eating beef, pork, and fish? Are big city folks going to grow their own food in the sky scrapers of New York or Toronto or London England? Suggesting such is so far beyond reality it is not even ridiculous. What about Seniors. What about lunch time when you are at work?


2. Most of you here will have heard of this but some of you may not. You will all know what desertification is. It has been proven that there is one VERY effective way to reverse desertification. Put cattle on that land and in a very short period of time it will come back to what it was just a few decades ago. So, do we simply let those cattle roam free like in India? What I am saying is that cattle produce manure. Pigs. Chickens. Elephants. They all do. Get rid of that and you need to use artificial fertilizers. Using those you begin to get into nutrient inbalances. Ph disorders. etc. ALL kinds of problems! You would not believe the extent of those problems.

Think back hundreds to maybe a thousand years. Rather more recent native occupational periods. Ever heard tell of the "Nomadic Tribes"? i.e. tribes who wandered around from time to time. That did not happen by accident. They did not just wake up one day and say "I think we should move to a different location with more sun and more water today." They moved because their land had been ruined by rather intensive agriculture. They had few to NO animals. You may not know it from modern "White Man" bullshit, but they did not use horses. So, they had no manure to fertilize the land. Yes, they had the "Dead fish" method you have all heard of but that was not very efficient. So, they farmed the fields until they were ruined by intensive agriculture with no manure or artificial fertilizers and moved on.


So much of the Vegan diet is based on manure. And they sort of "Sweep that under the rug"! "Oh, we will deal with that later when we get further down the path". Yah right. People are just deceived so very easily! They just take this stuff in without thinking.


Really, no matter how much we try, we will probably never really solve this on paper. Because it is based on emotions. And emotions cannot be dealt with on paper very easily. But those are SOME of my thoughts anyhow! The Vegan idea is so far into ridiculous that it is beyond belief. But it is so far into ridiculous that people seem to fall for it just because of that.

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