A random thought..

[Kappa]

What ever happened to what was the glamor and style of what is now referred to as classic or vintage? The well dressed and well styled? Looking at old photographs, there was a time when it meant something to be dressed up. Along with that, there was a time when there were "bombshells". I can't think of anyone today who could be called that. Am I missing anyone? Perhaps it's just a passing moment but there was a time when things like this were common and of course with all this, came the amazing furs that the women wore. Are the things I'm talking about something that we won't see again?

[Worker 11811]

There used to be a time when any man with any kind of manners would wear a hat in public, regardless of social status. Look at old photos. Even the lowly mill worker could be seen wearing a hat.

 

I think the trend of industrialized clothing production creating mass produced products at cheaper prices has fundamentally changed the way we think about the everyday use of clothing. We buy it. We wear it. When it's too old to keep, we throw it away and buy more. There is no such thing as "hand-me-downs" anymore.

[FurLoverinFL]

If FrBrGr is listening to this, would you please come on and explain what the Den used to be... and what it is now... not that there's anything wrong with either of the alternatives... just that I think a history lesson may be in order right now.

 

FLinFL

[Kappa]

FurLoverinFL, did I say something wrong?

[JGalanos]

When I visited Dittrich Furs in Detroit last December I was disappointed in the quality of their men's collection versus what I saw there during my first visit ~8 years ago. I mentioned this to the salesman and he told me that they were carrying what the current market would support. He said most of their male buyers were walking in off the street on a cold day and buying something -- No shopping around, comparing quality, price, etc. Just guys coming in who are cold and plunking down money for (what I considered overpriced) pieced or similar (in my book inferior) furs.

 

How things change. During my first visit I was overwhelmed by the quality and depth of their men's collection. There was a fur that to this day I wish was hanging in my closet. During my last visit I did not see one garment that met my (granted, rather high) standards.

 

[White Fox]

Kappa...

 

Sorry to be short on time here. But no you did not say anything wrong. I think that FlinFl was just thinking that FrBrGr might be a good one to answer your question in terms of this site.

 

Always great indeed to see such posts.

 

W

[Kappa]

It is late and I've been buried in CAD software all day, I may have misunderstood what was said. Then again, I do try to be conscious of what I say and worry if it's misunderstood.

 

I was sitting on the phone for quite a while earlier today and looking through the Classic and Vintage Fur Images folder and it made me start to wonder, what happened to the style and types of people that we used to see and do see in that folder. I don't know of anyone that measures up and I wonder if it's something the style people had back then will ever return?

[FurLoverinFL]

Hi Kappa - yes, I think you may have misunderstood and I apologize for causing that.

 

You raised a great question that relates both to society's views as to what is 'glamerous', and how we - as a website - present that sort of material. In so far as The Fur Den is concerned, I hope that FrBrGr takes the time to offer his opinion either in this thread or to you, personally. Again, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding!

 

Best,

FLinFL

[Kappa]

There is no reason for you to apologize, I was the one that was concerned for incorrectly expressing my question.

[FrBrGr]

Well, I'm not really sure what Kappa said in his opening post has anything to do with The Fur Den as a site - yesterday or today - but I can say that I agree with him 1000%! In days past, at least, we always looked to Hollywood to set the trend for glamour and style. That was then. Generally speaking, there is no glamour or style today, especially compared to the glamour and style inspired by most of the old Hollywood stars. Oh, sure, you can see $50,000 gowns on the red carpet, but even then, the bimbos that often wear them have no sense of elegance about them. It's like putting lipstick on a pig! And what do you have on the myriad number of talk shows? A parade of semi-stars and wannabes with torn jeans, dirty, stringy hair, and a sloppy sweatshirt. Even the women who do manage to wear a dress have seemingly forgotten why they should wear pantyhose. And the men are just as bad! All I have to do is point to stars like Nick Nolte who doesn't need a movie script to appear to be "Down and Out In Beverley Hills," and Brad Pitt who, with his scruffy beard, dirty boots and clothes that look like they have just been taken out of the dirty laundry, looks more like a homeless person than a top-grossing Hollywood star! How many times I have heard these so-called stars complain that they just want to chill, that's it's not fair for us to expect them to look like the stars they pretend to be. Give me $20 mil per picture, and I'll chill around my house, but dress the part when I go out so my fans can see what style and glamour are all about!

 

But that's Hollywood, and when you stop to consider the wackos that largely make up Hollywood today, you can begin to see reasons why the old style and glamour have gone by the wayside. What about mainstream America? On the whole, I guess, the business world still maintains a sense of style, although many companies, institutions and organizations have gone from casual Fridays to just plain casual. But that's where it stops. "The Duchess" and I went to a very fine restaurant not long ago to have a few drinks and a good meal. We do that as often as we can. We call it "date night." We dressed up for the occasion. I wore a suit; she wore a dress and heels. I guess you could say we were "dressed to the nines." (And yes, I wore my cashmere topcoat that has the opossum collar, and she wore her blue fox coat!) I think one other older couple in the restaurant was "dressed for the occasion." Otherwise, the dress code I would think that kind of restaurant would have, had been completely ignored. I saw jeans, I saw sweaters, I saw tennis shoes. I saw pony tails and I saw three or four-day growths of beards. Amazing! Have you gotten on an airplane lately? I can remember when people dressed up to travel by air. Now, passengers look like they just crawled out of bed! (Of course, with all of the hassle one has to go through at airports anymore, there is a point to wearing as little as one can get away with!) How 'bout church? Whatever happened to "Sunday go-to-meetin'" clothes? I guess God isn't even deserving of a little respect that some style would show anymore. Have you been to a funeral lately? Isn't it the least people could do would be to pay their respects, dressed respectfully? And makeup - ! Whatever happened to makeup? Three-quarters of the women I see today apparently feel they don't need it. What a joke!

 

Now, then . . . FurLoverinFL raised another question, and I'm not really sure what he meant. What I can tell you is that once upon a time The Fur Den was no more than a public forum. We had a great time, though. We were entirely made up of fur freaks, and openly discussed our "magnificent obsession." We didn't have a web site with a half-dozen different forums, a wiki, an archive, a photo gallery with over 20,000 photos and a chat room. That's what the Den has now. As far as style and glamour, you'll find everything here - from furotic to high fashion, from candid, on-the-street to the old Hollywood glamour. There are literally hundreds of photos of the "power furs" of the 80's, when furs were furs, and if you're interested in what the old Hollywood glamour, I suggest you take in the special work that was done by our own Roninphy. He did a tribute to Jayne Mansfield in her furs, another one to the silent era stars, and yet another tribute to Marilyn Monroe. You want to see style and glamour in fur? This is the place to go! Roninphy did a masterful job! Compare these photos with, say, some of the latest taken of the Olsen twins! Again, comparing old-style glamour to today's version of it - well, there is no comparison! http://vdsden.thefurden.com/fdwiki/?n=Photo.SpecialExhibition1

 

Sorry if I've rambled on, and sorry if I, too, missed the point, but these were just some of the things that popped into my sleepy mind after I just got out of bed . . .

[Kappa]

Thank you FrBrGr! You hit the proverbial nail on the head. That is what I was talking about. I didn't live "in the day" but I was raised by people who did and some of the points you described are how I remember it. The only times you didn't put your good foot forward was when you were doing work in the yard, the field or around the house. Any other time, you did clean up, dress up and not only look but act respectable.

The doctor I saw at the VA hospital yesterday during her ramblings made the comment that we are living in a fallen society. I know that comment or phrase comes from her religion base, I only hear my friends that share that religion making a comment like that. To some extent I do agree with her, what has become acceptable today was at one point, not acceptable at all. I also understand that things change over time, that's just how it is. There are some things that shouldn't though and this is just my personal opinion. I think a person should be presentable when they go out, have company over or are being seen by others. It also displays a level of self-respect I think as well.

I have seen the photo's that Roninphy has done and that is partially responsible for the post I started. There was a time that people dressed well and people did look to the so called "stars" for fashion and style. The only change that I've seen, is that level is nothing what it used to be. I agree with you as well that style and glamor have disappeared and unfortunately, I don't see it returning anytime soon. A sad but true fact unfortunately. This topic comes up every once and a while with my girlfriend. She really likes how the stars of Hollywood's past used to dress. The nice suits, the dresses, as she has put it a few times, that was elegance, style and fashion were real.

I also liked your comment about your date night. That's something that my girlfriend and I also do from time to time. I try to find a place that will have a dress code but these places are more difficult to find lately. When we do go out though, out comes my tailored suit, nice shoes, shirt and tie. She comes out fully dressed, to the nine's, as you put it. When the weather permits, she also brings out one of the furs she has now (because of me actually.. ). We make a night of it, going to dinner and then out somewhere nice for drinks and conversation.

In the end, you did understand what I was trying to say. I wasn't trying to compare anything, consciously, I was only trying to ask, "what happened?" As I mentioned, I know things change, that's just how it is. I do think that things have sadly, changed in the wrong places. It would be nice if things, someday, changed in the direction that you, FrBrGr and I have mentioned. I know it will never get to that point but something close would be nice. I also have to admit that I do miss the furs as well. Of course that is part of question. I don't know if we'll see furs like we have seen in the past, I think a lot of people here would agree, that it would be nice. I just don't think it will happen though, sadly. I'll step down from the soap box and stop here but I wanted to reply and confirm that yes FrBrGr, you understood what I was asking.

[FrBrGr]

The doctor I saw at the VA hospital yesterday . . . made the comment that we are living in a fallen society. I know that comment or phrase comes from her religion base, I only hear my friends that share that religion making a comment like that. To some extent I do agree with her, what has become acceptable today was at one point, not acceptable at all . . . I also understand that things change over time, that's just how it is . . . I was only trying to ask, "what happened?" . . . I do think that things have sadly, changed in the wrong places. There are some things that shouldn't though and this is just my personal opinion . . . It (i.e., pride in the way we look) also displays a level of self-respect I think as well.

 

You know, Kappa? I think it all has to with the fact that we, as a nation, have accepted mediocrity. Instead of striving to be the best we can be and teaching our children to dare to be different, It would seem to me that we have been content to lower our expectations and performance to the lowest common denominator, in the interest of what? Political correctness? Let's not strive for excellence or try to be the best we can be for fear that we will hurt someone else's feelings. It would only seem logical that with the acceptance of mediocrity in performance and expectations, that we would also lower the bar when it comes to what we wear and the way we groom. It does have something to do with self-respect, and if we don't have any respect for life's expectations, competition and performance, then why should we have any respect in the way we look? "I can look average - or worse - and it won't matter. Besides, it's better to fit in than stand out. Why try to excel in anything? School, career, the way I look, the way I live . . . I'll be accepted or perhaps even admired that I 'fit in.' And if I miss even that mark, why worry? Somebody will be there to take care of me."

 

Things, indeed, have changed over time, Kappa. It is very, very sad that they have. One can only hope for some real change in this country to get us back on track to be strong and vital force in this world.

[Kappa]

Once again FrBrGr, I agree with you. In the strive for being more "PC" things have suffered or been stopped and forgotten. There was a time that people either had to deal with it, put up and shut up or do without. While there are some areas that this move was necessary, people have stuffed more behind that banner than what was necessary and instead of saying no, people let it slide. I have never been any kind of advocate for being pc, I am who I am, I live how I was both taught and how I learned to live and a strong believer in the way things were. If things are let run and happen as they like, everything goes downhill. Until enough people put their foot down and say enough, things won't change. Sadly, from what I have seen, there are not enough people around today with a backbone to say this and anyone who doesn't conform only suffers the wrath of the "pc group". I have been warned that someday I will run into trouble for who I am, what I believe and how I conduct myself but honestly, I haven't had any issues yet. So this only tells me that the masses are letting themselves be controlled rather doing what they should do and controlling how things are. A pretty good saying I heard one time is that people shouldn't be afraid of their government, a government should be afraid of it's people. Too many people don't understand this, the system has weeded out real education about how government works in order to control the outcome of things. You are also correct in that one event or one thing can dictate how other aspects of life turn out and it's apparent in day to day life, politics, attitude, aspirations and self respect. I really wish things weren't as they happen to be, I've read and even remember, a little, how things were at one time before things went crazy. I don't spend my time wishing for how things were, I live my life to the best of my ability and try to pass on what I was taught and I have learned.

[starrxxfoxx]

To all,

 

I have just recently posted many photos of the classic fur styles in the "classic and vintage fur images" of our gallery.

 

Please view them. Any comments would be appreciated.

 

Sincerely,

 

Starr

[White Fox]

Starr, there are some fantastic old beautiful shots in there! Fantastic indeed!

 

Hope to see more!

 

W

[FrBrGr]

I have just recently posted many photos of the classic fur styles in the "classic and vintage fur images" of our gallery. Please view them. Any comments would be appreciated.Starr

 

Those pics were taken in a time when celebrity meant something more - much, much more - than who could look the grungiest. Beautiful, classically dressed and coiffed women with furs we can only hope to see anymore in photographs. Oh, for the "good ol' days!" Thanks, Starr! " title="Applause" />

[starrxxfoxx]

FrBrGr,

 

You are kindly welcome!

 

SF