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Alienation from nature and British history

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SAXONS NORMAN AND CELTS : a Study in Alienation from nature


This I believe relevant to any argument about animals.

Its how the range war started.


Celtic culture is a hunting one, not a farm and settle one. This suited the Romans who were happy to trade with the hunting peoples. A strong Romano celtic alliance was formed after the invasion, and this led to stories of Roman auxilliary tropps, who had no home to go back to, staying among the celts. Artur, who defested the saxons at Baden Hill, was a believed Roman Soldier. This battle took place at the end of the 6th century but nobody knows where. We do know that there were no saxon settlements west of Bath, a possible site, which can be seen from across the channel to a peculiar once fortified round burial mound/hill fort called twn barlem near to the main Roman fortress of Caerleon.


The saxons were defeated in England by the Normans 500 years later, when they were coming out of feudalism...something that was not liked by welsh prince or Norman warlord. Because they were no horsemen, the Saxons had no stirrups and had to dismount to fight. The Norman knights, stirrupped, slaughtered them.


Under norman control, feudalism was re established and the saxon agricultural revoluition halted. The Normans, while they had terrible hassle from the celts for hundreds of years, in times of peace had an uncanny alliance with them, Hunting techniques were shared. Indeed welsh hawks appear in the Bayeaux tapestry which indicates close contact, probably via the celtic areas of brittanny(speculation). Certainly Harald is shown in the Bayeux tapestry learning Norman hawking. Normans were always a culture of assimilation, and the great hunting and celt managed game areas even now still exist; much to the annoyance of the urban wealthy.


Despite violent confrontation(owen Glyndawr etc) peace treaties were signed, and hunting methods exchanged. A mutual respect between the two grew as gamegeeping ruled the roost over the saxon scorched earth

and arable farming/settlement techniques. This still very starkly defines the British countryside, as our hedgerows and animal farming was always "free range" and had hunting as a priority. The pig pen was a saxon invention; the celts and normans ate Boar. SAxon later agricultural changes destroyed the wild boar population, and hunting and game became the preserve of celtic hunting regions and aristocratic Norman estates. Some may see this as civilised progress, but with it came an allienation from nature. Peened animals were an anathema to Norman and celt. Celtic culture ambraces the forest; saxon culture fears it is full of trolls and dark beasts.

The dark beasts of celtic legend, the whist hounds (hounds of hell) were embraced,tamed and used by the celts for hunting. They still form the best bloodlines of british all white foxhounds, the Curre.


The saxon middle casses established thenselves after the agricultural revolution made then cash wealthy, and the scene was set for industrial revolution . The age of dark satanic mills was round the corner and with it urban settlement and expansion of towns. Coal mines replaced animal farming and hunting in Wales as the cheif employer, and with it came an alien culture masquerading as what is now considered welsh. Rugby is an english sport.


And then came urban alienation and domiantion over rural culture. That has manifested itself in a failure culturally to understand the natural world, a complete ignorance and anthropormorphic of animals. There is now huge division in theBritish Isles between the country and the city. No more so than in the celtic heartlands of Wales and the west country, Ireland and Scotland. Thes are still the home of hunting, hawking coursing and steeplechasing. The same is true of other celtic heartlands in Brittanny and the czech republic. we are not an urban settlement people unlike the saxons. We are still one iwth amnimas.


Shoukld you doubt me watch tjhe Grand National next week. 88% of the horses and rdiers are celtic. Most are Irish, though christian Williams Richard Johnson, Carl Llewellyn and tom Scudamore(a direst descendant of Owen Glendawr) and a few others will fly the flag for wales, and The Nicholls team (Paul is from Lydney on the welsh border and trains in Shepton Malet) will field an incredible number of 7 horses, closely followed by martin Pipe, another west country trainer. But the Irish will battle hard to keep the crown they have lifted 4 times in 8 years.

The french raiders led by Innox also have a chance. Sadly there are no czech raiders this year, but there have been regularly for over a hundred years. Count Kinsky actually won it in the 19th century.


It is the living embodiment of celtic horsemanship and culture. Every single horse and rider have learned their great skills in the hunting field. EVERY one. The (saxon merchant middle class guild descendants)urban petit bourgeois will never understand it and the only english to run in it will be the odd upper class norman descendant. Even Ginger McCain, the legendary trainer of Red Rum, clearly has celtic roots and his horse was Irish bred.



PETA even want pets bred out of existence: they have no real empathy with animals: they are the urban anglo saxon natural world alienated.

Nature in the British Isles thanks the Norman yoke, and its celtic friends.


And that is why I thought it was relevant to the Tryxie study thread re history.

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Ummmmm ToS.... now just HOW was Tryxie to get that plus her other research into 1500 words? As it is she got up to 2800, which means that if the teacher is a real anal retentive type, she is already on the backfoot.


(No I haven't read it all.. maybe next time... *grin*)


Then again... if I were to explain all the fun and games of aussie rules, well, that'd require more than 1500 words.... and that just deals with the ruck contests.


Funny how we all have to work within rules and regs ain't it?

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Yes point taken, Tryxie could never have got all that in but its interesting , and that in itself is very very simplofied but nevertheless highlights continuity and cjhange in celtic/saxon/norman culture which people think doesnt affect them.


How did oz rules football get invented Piotr?

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WEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllllllllllllll.... there are trwo competing views on that.


In no particualr order we have:


The Whiteman's Version


A bloke came to Oz and participated in a form of rugby, but got bored. So he sat down and came up with a new game with a page of rules. This occured in the late 1800's.


Alternatively, it is based on Gaelic Football with rule changes as above.


The 'Blackman's' version


Outback, they played a game which involved kicking and catching a 'ball' bound by possum/kangaroo skin. It had a name which escapes me at the moment.


A trip to the AFL Museum will throw more light on the topic, but the first story about a bloke sitting down and coming up with the rules is taken by the Establishment to be the real birth of Australian Rules Football.


If any aussie mexican can throw more light on this matter, I won't object. *grin*

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