Breaking into 3d fur

[scottyfur]

Hi everyone. Well I just posted a pic that I been working on. Its a 3d render of a fur body. I have it setup for some movement and as Im writing this having it render out a 4 second video. I'll be making more and working on my skills but I hope people like it.

 

Scottyfur

[Worker 11811]

That's pretty good!

 

The shading turned out real nice. You can see the virtual texture of the fur pretty well.

 

How long did it take to render the frame?

 

Is that the default color of the material/particle? Or is that the color you selected? The grey/white color looks good. I just wondered how it will look if you change the color.

 

Try adding a flood light from behind to see if that doesn't make the model "pop" just a bit more.

 

Are you using virtual gravity to make the hairs bend down?

I like to use 1/10th of a percent force in the global negative Z-axis (Z = -0.001) to make the hairs bend downward as if they are affected by gravity.

 

I want to ask you all sorts of questions about the parameters you used to create the fur but I don't know if the program you use (3D Max. Right?) has the same kind of settings as the one I use. (Blender)

 

When I started trying to make virtual fur, I thought it was going to be a fairly straightforward process. I had dreams of making "Sully Fur" just like the character from the movie "Monsters, Inc."

It took less than 15 minutes for that dream to evaporate!

 

Later on, I found out that Pixar had an entire team of computer programmers whose sole job was to create Sully's fur and make it look realistic.

[Mr Barguzin]

Dang it Worker....... and here was me thinkin' if that coat could be so.... furry, why not try and re-do that project to be able to sell "real" furs in SL.

 

Which does beggar the question.............. Are both you exemplary artistes using Poser??

[scottyfur]

Well the fur is done by a plug in with 3dstudio. I can make the hair any legth and style it in any direction. I acutally combed the hairs down like that. That frame only took a minute or two. but Im doing a 160frame animation of it moving, with a glitch, but working on that part.. So far that animation is creeping up toward 6 hours of render time.

 

I can change the colors and everything about it fairly easily. I Too thought about making a sully too. but Im also wanting to make a fur alien too .. LOL exploring more of a fantasy side.

 

I'll post the animation when its done. whenever that is

 

As for how Im doing it. Im using a program called 3d studio max, The fur doesn't have any enviromental charactistics to it, no gravity or anything. the body has I beleive over 30000 hairs on it with 3 passes of fur application on it (thats why its taking soooo long) The fur isn't a texture map its all individual hairs. and the base is just a basic grey skin.

[Worker 11811]

Scotty:

 

30,000 hairs is nothing to sneeze at! Three rendering passes doesn't seem like much until you find out how long it takes!

 

If you're only going to post video on the internet, you can probably get away with a rate of 15 frames per second instead of the usual 30 f.p.s.

160 frames @ 30 fps = 5.33 sec. of video.

If you cut it down to 15 fps, you can get the same video using only 80 frames of rendering. Your render time is literally cut in half. The size of your final video file will be cut in half too. It will take half as long to download via internet.

 

This trick probably won't work if you're going to display it on a large screen on your own computer or if you want to watch it on TV.

But, most people watching on the internet would never notice the difference between 15 fps and 30 fps.

 

Mr. B:

 

I have actually wondered what format Second Life objects are made in.

 

I don't own any computers that are capable of running SL and I really can't load the software on the Power Macs I use at work. However, all "my" computers have Photoshop, GIMP and Blender 3-D. The ones at work all have full versions of Final Cut Studio and Adobe CS3. (Photoshop Suite.)

 

IF I get all my work done, I am allowed to use the computers at work for my own purposes in my spare time. (Usually after hours.) Both the "Brandy Fur" videos I have made were done using a combination of my home computers and "my" work computers. I'd do the basic modeling and rough editing at home then transport the files to work and do the final touch-ups and rendering late at night.

Normally, I set the computer working and let it "crunch" data overnight. I come in bright and early in the morning to pick up the results. I have spent some late nights working till 3:00 AM as well.

 

If there is a way to create objects for SL without using their special software, Scotty or I might be able to whip up something for you. Who knows? Maybe you could rack up a few Lindens selling furs!

 

Sorry but I don't have Poser either.

Neither do I own a computer that can run it, nor do I have the extra cash to pay for it. I probably couldn't convince the boss to buy it. Most of the 3-D work I do is to make logos and other objects to be inserted into videos for TV commercials and things like that. I don't know what reason I could justify the purchase with.

 

I am open for suggestions, though!

[AKcoyote]

I have actually wondered what format Second Life objects are made in.

[snip]

If there is a way to create objects for SL without using their special software, Scotty or I might be able to whip up something for you. Who knows? Maybe you could rack up a few Lindens selling furs!

There are 2 forms of objects in Second Life - those made from basic primitive shapes via the SL viewer software, and sculpties or sculpted prims which can be made with Blender or a few other 3D programs and uploaded to SL. There is an SL wiki article on Sculpted Prims at: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Sculpted_Prims

I believe texturing a sculpted prim presents some unique challenges.

 

I don't own any computers that are capable of running SL and I really can't load the software on the Power Macs I use at work.

If the trip weren't so expensive, I'd grab my laptop and go visit you so you could see what SL looks and feels like. The main limiting factor is the need for a really good graphics card/chip and a DSL or better internet connection.

[scottyfur]

Ok Just uploaded the movie part of this. It took about 10 hours to render. on and I miss quoted the hair count, its 230000!! I really wanted to test how my system could handle it. I was also playing with a bones system and skinning the whole outfit, but for some reason that I couldn't figure out yet the legs act like there is a string from the arms attached.

 

Again for me its all a work in progress and proof of concept. but hopefully its just someting that I can turn into that everyone would enjoy.

[Worker 11811]

I was also playing with a bones system and skinning the whole outfit, but for some reason that I couldn't figure out yet the legs act like there is a string from the arms attached.

 

I don't know what they call it in 3DS but, in Blender, it's called "Inverse Kinematics." ("I.K. Chain" for short.)

 

In the virtual world, if we had a humanoid model and we wanted to make it reach out and grab for something we might program the arm to move then program the forearm to move and, finally we would program the hand to move toward the object we want to have our model pick up. Each individual bone in the virtual skeleton would have to be programmed to move toward the target object.

 

Now, let's say we moved the upper arm bone in the wrong direction... The forearm and hand would move, proportionally, in the wrong direction too! We would have to go back and REprogram all the dependent parts. This is where I.K. chains come to the rescue.

 

What if we could program the relationships between the bones in REVERSE? Instead of the hand being dependent on the arm's position, the arm would be dependent on the HAND's position! If you moved the hand, the computer would calculate the position of the bones higher up in the chain so that they all flowed together in one realistic movement. That's Inverse Kinematics!

 

Here's how you do it in Blender... (YMMV with 3DS.)

 

Build your skeleton as normal and parent the bones together as normal from the shoulders down to the hands, but then you add an EXTRA bone at the end of the chain. This is your "I.K. Solver" bone. All of the other bones, upward in the chain will follow the IK Solver as it moves.

 

Now, to make the skeleton move, you just program the IK bone(s) to move then the computer figures out the rest for you!

 

Make sense?

 

Now, as to why the legs seem to move when the arms move...

 

Could be a problem in the parenting relationships. You might accidentally have the legs parented to the hands or vice versa. If you duplicated (copy/pasted) bones to create the legs you might have an accidental parent relationship set up due to the copy/paste operation.

 

Check your parent relationships to see if that's the problem.

 

Could also because you have mirroring/symmetry turned on.

I don't know for sure... I'm just speculating.

 

This game is hard! I don't even understand 1/10th of what I need to know!

I've just been learning as I go and figuring out the things I need to do, one at a time.

The learning curve is steep but if you keep at it the payoff can be VERY COOL!

 

Keep on modeling!

[scottyfur]

3ds has the typical IK system, joining everything, controling the joints and tension and all that. 3D Studio has another system that works with IK bones called Skinning. What that allows is a single mesh object such as my furry there, be one whole blob and the bones and the skinning system provide the ability to bend it in a beleivable way. The bones have a area of influence based off of the size of the bone and where its located. What is happening is the Arm bones are "pulling" on the leg skin. Which Im still getting the hang of, but will work it more out. More to come of course.

[Worker 11811]

Oh, so the arm bones are pulling the mesh off the legs? I see...

 

There are about a dozen parameters in Blender to control the way the vertices of a mesh parent to the skeleton. You can define vertex groups which are parented to a particular bone or you can manually parent vertices or groups of vertices to a bone.

 

There are also "influence" settings for vertex groups so that you can specify that a certain bone has a certain percentage of "pull" over a given vertex/group.

 

Finally, there is a "stiffness" setting for some meshes which determines how much influence other vertices within the mesh influence an individual vertex. You can tell a mesh to behave as if it was made of wood or to behave as if it is made of rubber or silk, etc.

 

I should start a Blend file similar to yours so we can work together on this project.

If I have time, I'll let you know what I come up with.

[samurman]

When I read the title of this thread on the main forum page, I thought it talked about "breaking into 3rd fur" just like one breaks into a hiking boot. 3D is three dimensions, 3rd is third, so I guess I am more inclined towards breaking into furs for comfort than viewing pleasure of the 3D:)

[Worker 11811]

I love fur and Bears but simply being a "passive consumer" of these things is boring to me.

 

The pictures and web pages people post and talk about are great. I always enjoy seeing more of them.

 

We have lots of Bears here in our little Den. We have some furs too. We even have some fur Bears! We love every one of them! There are times when I feel like I can't get enough of them. But I have a creative mind. There are times when seeing and touching just aren't enough.

 

I enjoy making movies on computer. That's part of my job, in fact.

I have so many creative ideas that it's impossible to shoot video for even a fraction of them. That's where 3-dimensional graphics comes in.

 

Maybe 1/10 of the ideas that pop into my mind actually materialize into a project that I can either make into a 3-D rendering, a video or a combination of the two. The majority of those probably never make it out of the pre-planning stages. I'll get an idea and "thumbnail" it or start making it in 3-D but, for one reason or another, it doesn't turn out the way I envisioned. Some of those projects get put away for later. Most of them go into the trash. In the end, more than half of the projects I start ever find their way through to completion. Those are the dozen or so pictures and movies I have displayed to the Fur Den over the past couple of years.

 

I'd say the same goes for stories that I write. I've got 8 of them posted on Literotica.com and I've got another two in our private stories archive. There are at least that many stored on my hard drive in various stages of completion and there are more that either got erased shortly after I started them or that never even made it out of the gate.

 

I have to "do." I have to "make." I have to "create." But I don't have time or money to make everything I think of into a real video or 3-D rendering or a story. I wish I could!

 

I hope there are people out there who appreciate the things I make. I don't mean that everybody has to like them. In fact, I am sure most people don't like the same things I like. But it is important to me that people recognize the art I create. Criticism is important.

 

Even if somebody doesn't like something I make, I like to hear it. The feedback is the important thing. It gets depressing when I spend time and effort to make something that nobody cares about. I would rather have 1,000 people say, "That's terrible!" than to have no recognition at all.

 

So, what does Scottyfur have to say about the creative process? He started this thread.

How does he feel about the creative process and being recognized for it?

[scottyfur]

I do totally agree with Worker. I think what we do or try to do, to spark some interest and get more peoples imagination going it actually important to our fetish. If you want to take a historical look at things, look at the movie industry. things stared off being very real to life films, sometimes an exceptional storyline but the visual aspect were things that where real. Then as more and more people became interested they let their imaginations get the better of them, and start pushing the envelope and getting more fantasy and sci/fi films. sure as we all know how they looked were crazy, but it pushed our imagination beyond what we knew. Now a days in a movie you can't tell what is real and what is computer made. It lets your mind beleive what is happening and captures your imagination.

 

Take a look at now what Worker, Roninphy and myself and all the other people who do the photo manips and stretch the truth. We have people who write stories, some of them very realistic and some of them very Sci/fi. Then we have photomanips of Jennifer Anniston, and Angelina Jolie, and countless other starlets, bringing our imaginations and dreams to life. SO why not 3d Fur. animated fur covered humanoids, or furniture or whatever we can do. May not the greatest in the world, but you know enjoy our craft, and have a love for fur, so why not join the two things we love.

 

But all what we do and work for is for nothing if its not recognized, critiqued, and enjoyed by as many people as we can have. Like Worker said I too feel I would rather have 100's of "OH my god what were you thinking, its aweful" than an empty post. At least I have feed back and critisim that I can use to direct my work.

 

But thats my $1.50... two cents doesn't get you much anymore.