Black list

[mailonfurs]

I received a black list from a chinese Fur manufacturing company regarding bad Fur dealers.

 

Its funny...

I am removing the names due to obvious reasons:

 

Before this accident, I have absolutely confidence in working with English speaking countries especially Canada . But, I am changed suddenly for this issue. I do not want to say too much such as: they promised us that their price will be lower than the auction

price (the reality is their price is much higher than all other business)……they allow us to return products if they can not meet our requirements (if it is true, will I write here?)…… Just please take a look at the big difference between reality and our requirements: Quantity: 1000 in contract, 810 we got and we take the shortage-190 skins back after 2 months’ hard work……delivery time was 1 and a half month but in contract they promise 14 days after having all payment……Real skin size is 55 - 65 cm but as they promised in contract, the skins should be at the least 70 cm long……Quality grades of skins, 3rd, but the contract said clearly, it should be grade 1 or 2……I also need new skins of the same year, but

the fact is all of the skins are old and they have already slipped. At this time, do you think it is still useful for me to say something else? When inspecting the bad lots, even their Chinese agent told us, it is only worth the half of the money we paid. Recently I got a new email from them and said:â€

[auzmink]

Kostas - forgive me if I've got this wrong. Are you telling us YOU are on a black list of Chinese companies, or that some Chinese companies are on a Black list and that we need to be careful if ordering stuff from them?

 

Auzmink.

[mailonfurs]

hahahaha no no

Its about some other fur companies that these guys warned me not to work with them cause they are unreliable!!!!!

If anyone else thinks of what you thought by reading this post then I'll remove it at once. It will be bad for my reputation

[White Fox]

It is a bit hard to understand due to translation, etc. however, that is indeed one very strange charge. Indeed it is SO strange one would think there must be another side to the story due to the fact it is so very damaging a charge. If a company behaved like that for a few orders to anyone, they would be out of business in weeks probably.

 

Very strange indeed!

 

W

[mailonfurs]

Indeed, I have to agree with you White on this one. Hurting other company's reputation like this is not correct.

 

I had major customers that bought wholesale, were supposed to pay me off within a few months and its now a year and I'm not paid in full yet. I'm dissapointed, angry with them, but I would not hurt their reputation like that.

 

These three incidents were about three different companies (one paragraph per company). This guy named them all, asking us NOT TO WORK with them. That is definately not right. This is why I removed names and firms.

[AKcoyote]

I have no knowledge of any Chinese companies, but I do know there are some US fur companies that would qualify for such a warning.

 

A few are dishonest and will try to rip off their suppliers. Many are having a very tough time staying in business (lack of sales) and are delaying paying some suppliers in order to pay other bills.

[Guest]

Sounds like a few clients I've had who stiffed me for my design work

 

I've learned that the hard way for certain.

 

 

 

OFF

[Worker 11811]

In any business it is right for people to pass on information they have regarding DIRECT EXPERIENCE they have in dealing with their suppliers and customers.

 

If a wholesaler is known to sell a superior product, word will get around that he is a good man to do business with. Also, if a wholesaler is found to be pushing poor product at inflated prices and doesn't live up to his obligations, others SHOULD know that doing business with him is a risk.

 

I can tell you the name of a company who sells counterfeit motion picture projector equipment and supplies and puts them in packages with genuine product labels on them. He has been caught "red handed" going to Wal-Mart and buying generic automotive oil and putting it in different bottles labeled "Century Projector Oil". You don't need to be a motion picture engineer to know that, when a company specifies a certain type of oil for their machines, putting another kind of oil in it will DESTROY the equipment.

 

Under these conditions, it would be right for movie theaters to pass along the word, "Do not buy anything from "Acme Cinema Supply Co."

(No, that is not the real name of the company but I do have a specific company in mind.)

If anybody needs to know the name of this company and its owner they can PM me and I will explain.

 

Taking this to the fur business, it would be right for furriers to pass along information about suppliers who do bad things. But I would also be careful to be sure the things people say are true. If people pass along false information for the sake of increasing their own business at the expense of another, they could end up in hot water!

 

In short, I would take this letter seriously but I would also take it with a grain of salt until I was able to find out if the things this person is saying are true.

[furslave]

Therefor, will it be possible to have some kind of a list posted here? So that we all know of those businesses.

 

I mean, I just bought 2 furs from a dealer. I'm not very happy with my order. They smell bad, and feel like plastic. It is real fur and the size were good but, still very disapointed!

 

furslave

[Worker 11811]

I, personally, don't have any problems with that but, when people publish their opinions in a public forum, it creates a host of problems for us.

 

What if the accused business man thinks we are lying just because we don't like him, personally? Everything you say could be 100% true but he could make a lot of trouble for us just the same. Crooked businessmen often resort to these tactics just to get revenge on people who speak out.

 

However, I also think that people who get shafted in bad business deals should be allowed to speak out.

 

We have tried to find a middle ground on this subject but, so far, have been unsuccessful.

 

One think I can ask is whether you have tried to resolve this matter with the business involved. Have you contacted him? Did you tell him you were unsatisfied? What was his answer? Were you able to come to a reasonable solution?

 

I think these matters should be handled privately as much as possible.

 

The cinema supply dealer I mentioned has had a LONG history of bad business. He has been a problem for several years but, because of some quick legal maneuvering, he always seems to be able to stay one step ahead of the law. But, trust me! His day will come!

 

So, unless the business you are thinking of rises to the level of "Acme Cinema Supply" (or, should I say, SINKS to the level) I recommend that we don't use names in public.

 

However, there's nothing preventing you from sharing your experience with people who ask you privately.

[mailonfurs]

Therefor, will it be possible to have some kind of a list posted here? So that we all know of those businesses.

 

I mean, I just bought 2 furs from a dealer. I'm not very happy with my order. They smell bad, and feel like plastic. It is real fur and the size were good but, still very disapointed!

 

furslave

 

Don't they have a return policy?

[White Fox]

Worker pretty much summed things up on this. However, I just thought of a suggestion.

 

First off though.

There are those bad times when we as members land up in the middle of a bad transaction. Be it something similar to what Kostas described. Something similar to the deal that FurSlave mentioned. Or someone who paid for a product and did not receive any merchandise in return. A Scam! There are now and then bad things happen like that.

 

However, everyone in business will realize that there are also times when things just do not work out even though you did everything right. You are blamed for being a very bad person, yet you did everything correctly. You bent over backwards to help that person yet things still went wrong and the customer was angry.

 

Unfortunately here we just cannot separate the two. Thus, it is not easy to list such transactions without getting ourselves into trouble.

 

HOWEVER

***Just got to wondering if it would be worth while to list names of members who have been dissatisfied with a deal concerning fur. We could post those names of members on a wiki page along with links to this forum to posts describing the complaint without the dealer name. Then if a person wanted to at any time they could contact that Den member via PM to ask him/her for the name of the dealer they had problems with. Would it be worth while doing that? It would be easy to do, but I am wondering if it would be used. Would it be a lot of work for nothing? We might be able to even sort by "Furrier", "Ebay", "Personal Transaction" etc.

 

W

[Worker 11811]

Could we make a wiki page where members talk about ANY experience with furriers, dealers or wholesalers whether they are good OR bad ones?

 

Good businessmen should be recognized!

 

But, when a member has a bad experience, they should be asked to provide details like, "I paid $1,000 to 'Acme Fur Co.' on Feb. 20, 2008 but did not receive the goods." The real name will be withheld from the posting but the notation would be made to contact the member via PM/e-mail. The name of the business in question could simply be listed as "Retail Furrier from 'Anytown, USA'" or "On-line Furrier from 'Someplace Else'".

(Where only the name of the city is listed but not the name of the business or person.)

 

Secondarily, even after the negative post has been made, if the situation in question is resolved, the original poster should be required to note that in a followup post. e.g. "Goods received from 'Acme Fur Co.' on Feb. 29, 2008 with apologies."

 

I think a wiki page is quite doable but let's keep this in the "brainstorming" phase until we can all get a better idea of what the project will be like.

 

Does anybody else have any ideas or opinions? Let us know!

[AKcoyote]

The concept of wiki page(s) where members would add blog like entries about their fur shopping experiences is worth consideration.

 

The problem is that the site owner could be sued if names of those sellers/buyers being accused of dishonest practices are provided in the group of bad experiences. I suggest that in the case of bad experiences, any naming of the accused be confined to private communication between the interested party and the reporter of the incident.

 

 

REMINDER TO ALL MEMBERS:

ANY registered member can edit most pages in the wiki, or start a new page.

If anyone wishes to start such a project, please feel free to do so. If you need assistance, please contact White Fox, Worker 11811, or myself.

[White Fox]

A page could be set up something like the following.

 

Member...... "FurSlave" reports receiving two coats from an "Ebay Seller" (Furrier, etc.) that were of inferior quality for the following reasons. Those coats were purchased from a Furrier in the city of Montreal. For the name of the Furrier, PM FurSlave on our Forums board.

 

There could be a section for Furriers and Ebay (too many Ebay folks are furriers I think to separate them), and a section for possibly Commercial businesses like the post that Kostas made.

 

The city name of Montreal could be used for instance as there are a lot of fur stores there. If there was only one furrier in the city the purchase was made, then the name of the Province/State, etc would be used instead.

 

Of course, we could also allow mention of Furriers where members had good experiences. Remember though that you can do this also in our links area. This is done with the red "Member Recommended" tag there. We do not want to get too many areas for this that are not interconnected.

 

W