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Chubby
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Actually a lot of it he is not that far off. But he certainly begins to "Show his true colours" in many spots. he is a very untrustworthy individual covering his true agenda when he wants to. But when you begin to get the the bottom of the page you begin to realize his true agenda.

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Anyone that can read that and tell me he is not a fascist offering a "final solution" is only deceiving themselves.

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Anyone that can read that and tell me he is not a fascist offering a "final solution" is only deceiving themselves.

 

Or you just don't know the actual meaning of fascism. Apocalyptic eco extremism is not the same thing. The only thing they have in common is telling people what do. Yet what that is, why, and the consequences, are nothing like each other.

 

This guy is just a paranoid, delusional nut.

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You appear to be the one who misunderstands the word fascism.

 

I think Watson's vision is comparable to fascism as it would entail as Chubby suggests, a frightening New World Order.

 

All AR people are interested in is restructuring society, re allocating land away from animal use , forcing people to adapt to a code of ethics, reduce human populations through whatever means necessary, and use any means necesary including thuggery (might is right) to establish a power base.

because fascism and communism have failed and people are wary of them (particularly the working classes) the petit bourgeois have come up with a more insidious raison d'etre based on rights of animals; unlike the working classes they cannot object to a "dictatorship of and for the proletariat", or a massive re alloctaion of resources and power into their hands and away from traditional power.

 

Call it what you want; but it masks a massive social change programme.

 

I think its fair enought to call that fascist; especially when it has allies already in governments and poweful global companies funding the "brownshirts" that carry out their will; fund political parties etc etc.

Again:

www.activistcash.com and check The Tides Foundation and their vision of "renewable resources" by which they mean reneable profits by having to change land use and social structure. The Tides foundation funds this "eco" movement and they represent multi Nationals like Heinz.

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I'm not questioning their extremism. It's just that calling them fascists, unless it's hyperbole, is incorrect, since their ultimate goal is a world more like the stone age, which would make it impossible to have an authoritarian, militaristic government, that are the key hallmarks of fascism.

 

But I'm not worried. Their final goals may be possible, but then you'd have to accept many things as possible. Them being likely, with how ingrained technology and progress have become to our world culture, is out of the question.

 

And just because they've made headway on minor goals, does not mean it's all downhill for them. Plus we don't know those goals won't go away due to the pendulum effect.

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ToS and LTNK aside ... though we would like to shoot this particular messenger and you may not agree with his "solution", what he says is spot on as you might say ToS.

 

The realities of this were clear with Rachel Carlson's "Silent Spring" that many years ago.

 

Of course none of this has much to do with Fur Farming or anything like that.

 

There are many other scenarios as to a solution but I'm as pessimistic as Watson when it comes to mankind collectively getting our act together.

 

Maybe I'll go up and meet the man. Have never been to Friday Harbor. I hear it's a wonderful place.

 

 

 

 

OFF

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since their ultimate goal is a world more like the stone age, which would make it impossible to have an authoritarian, militaristic government, that are the key hallmarks of fascism.

 

end quote

 

A world like the stone age is not their goal. One more like Huxley's is their goal. And a government that want to renew Trident are hardly non militaritic. The AR movement are just the Brownshirts. They get stitched up remeber?

Heinz and its ilk fund these eco people...check it. You think they are going to go back to the stone age? They just want to use thuggery to destroy the old power base; old industries, traditional animal economies, church and landowners/fishing rights/national and culturl dicisions and impose a new morality on the world. Then everyone eats heinz see?

 

Ah you say; but Heinz aren't the governemnt.

 

They nearly were. Ask Senator Kerry.

 

And in the UK; that governemnt of fascists are in power and in ten years the change here has been unbleievable. Everyone nannied; multi national corporation sthriving, small business and farmers crushed, and land being developed at a rate of knots. Hardly the stone age. Even the architecture is kind of post modern brutalism.

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Quote

 

since their ultimate goal is a world more like the stone age, which would make it impossible to have an authoritarian, militaristic government, that are the key hallmarks of fascism.

 

end quote

 

A world like the stone age is not their goal. One more like Huxley's is their goal. And a government that want to renew Trident are hardly non militaritic. The AR movement are just the Brownshirts. They get stitched up remeber?

Heinz and its ilk fund these eco people...check it. You think they are going to go back to the stone age? They just want to use thuggery to destroy the old power base; old industries, traditional animal economies, church and landowners/fishing rights/national and culturl dicisions and impose a new morality on the world. Then everyone eats heinz see?

 

Ah you say; but Heinz aren't the governemnt.

 

They nearly were. Ask Senator Kerry.

 

And in the UK; that governemnt of fascists are in power and in ten years the change here has been unbleievable. Everyone nannied; multi national corporation sthriving, small business and farmers crushed, and land being developed at a rate of knots. Hardly the stone age. Even the architecture is kind of post modern brutalism.

 

You really think they are alike, or even nearly alike? You sound just as ignorant as W Bush, in the sense of taking vague connections and equating them, and actually think that proves they are basically the same. You aren't proving environmental extremism wrong. You are only showing your ignorance of history.

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They are not vague connections Lord.

 

They are beliefs; and beliefs have an evolution and development; cultural roots and continuall re invent themselves when mistakes are made.

 

All these "isms", distinct to the late 19th and throught the twentieth centuries, are attempts to wrench power form the old guard. Then they find out wrenching power is not enough; they need the land too. They will ally with groups seemingly opposing to each other to secure this.

 

So in the case of the UK; socialism allies with global corporations to secure jobs for the working classes with minimum wages. The Government in return make it easy for them to expand and develop; but to do so they have to destroy the power of existing landowners.

 

and THIS is the story of the twentieth century; whoever is up to it.

 

However; we have had periods of stability based on libertarian principles and consensus politics where social mobility was actually much greater; people didn't get obscenely rich while others suffered at the hands of government opression etc.

 

The post war years in Britain for example saw the creation of a national health sevice, great transport sytem, we had immigration from the colonies and workers settled here with their families to provie a rich culturl diversity; Eden invented the idea of a property owning democracy, developed our small enterprise culture, and a respected police force and free media without lowest common denominator flavour or bias. There were mistakes: high rise for one. BUT if we went to war on the basis of something wrong, OR if there was scandal/corruption, governemnets would resign in disgrace. However, most politicians existed withing a consensus and so did the people. All that now lies in tatters. Thatcher started it; Blair has continued it, Brown now can establish his New Order.

 

But the divisions between society now are great; we have a massive underclass; fetering bitterness, we are chained down with 3000 new laws and hundreds of new stealth taxes; the education sysytem is crap and the hospitals are filthy, transport is in chaos and Tescos and the government between them employ most of the workforce. Our small enterpises are under pressure and all our high streets now look the same as Labour councils encourage chains and give them concessions and turn the screw on small businesses. Massive areas of green belt have been developed, the countryside is bleeding from every orifice, and two million people have been criminalised for hunting, and a further 13/17 million for smoking in public; moslems are not trusted and live in fear and suspicion of their burkhas, and hate and envy has seen the groth of The BNP into local government because immingration has been done so badly. I am not against the Poles etc that come to work; but the British governemnt called the Czech racist for trying to warn us against giving asylum to criminals fm the gypsy community; the Russians warned us against harbouring tax dodgers and terrorists blowing up people in chechnya and Afghanistan. The Governement has riden roughshod over our constitution; manufactured evidence of WMDS; ignord evidence that isn't in line with their doctrine; and flirted with AR groups like IFAW for funding while simultaneously banning fur farming destroying habitats.

 

 

Blair's Britain is a vile drone like society where we all do our shopping in the same stores, good health care is a sham; bureaucrats run every aspect of our lives; the Police spy on us and do not prosecute real criminals, farmers are comitting suicide and their animals suffering because of supermarkets; we encourage massive habitat destuction in Africa on the lie of free trade while discriminating against true produce like ivory , fur and sealskin.....moral imperialism which also takes our military into impossible situations liek Afghanistan and Iraq....where up to press 650 000 civilains and 5000 allied troops lie dead. And now soon we will have ID cards, retina and fingerprinting compulsory, surveillance cameras on village greens and distinctive cultural symbols, dress etc banned.

 

And who has the power and the good life? Whose morality is imposed on us? The urban petit bourgeois. Exactly the same people who had it under the Nazis; and achieved a trifle less violently but the social vision...including the eugenics on the way....is the same. An urban bourgeois Utopia with the old landowner and the working class crushed; all dignity and cultural distinctiveness discriminated against; and a media that tows the state line.

You come and live here then and then comment.

 

This is Britain. And this lot are just not playing cricket. Forgive us if it reminds us of fascism but there are plenty of old folk saying it because they remember fghting a war aginst such evil. It wasn't just the killing of jews that was evil; and Blair isn't doing that I grant you. It was the whole package of restrictions on freedom, and several things in particular that brught Britain into war against the NAzis; and the USA didn't particularly see the big deal then either.

 

We fought a war because we didn't want to be told not to smoke, not to foxhunt, and not be able to have a nation of shopkeepers, not to be told to reject other culture and lose our individuality, and we didn't want a police state where all our needs were provided for including having exactly the same "functional" cars as one another: the volkswagen. This is what we fought against; nobody had a clue what they were doing to the Jews during Dunkirk , the Battle of Britain and the war in the desert .

 

 

It is you who ae making the historical mistake; you are unable to realise that fascism wasn't the demon it is now seen as; it is something that crept up on people who thought such progress and vision and functionality over grandeur, huge powerful companies resurrecting their economies, giving everyone a decnt job and autobahns traverssing the nation, and getting rid of social class was a good thing. And with it a new enlightenment; not the hypocrisy of christainity judaism and Islam; and enlightenment in which animals have rights and vivisection is banned. And Strength through Joy was its motto; healthy happy people excercising being all the approved weight; and the smiling face of the swastika , a BUDDHIST symbol:

http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/symbols/swastika.htm

looking over them.

 

Yes that's right; all those stukas that dive bombed us with their screams that used to wake my grandmother up crying even on her deathbed were

carrying THE symbol of buddhism. A symbol necessary to replace the role of Christianity; an authority of the past.

 

And as I survey the empty pews in churches throughout the land, and we move to a secular scociety but one in which the other old great religions of Juaism and Islam fight among each other to our disgust....for we are the enlightened ones now; who do not approve of smoking and foxhunting and religions of the old guard who shock horror kill animals by axing their heads off and calling it halal .....while buddhism is seen as enlightened and the Dali Lama burns snow leopard pelts when they could have been auctioned to raise enough money to save the animal threatened actually by habitat destruction fostered by them......well.

 

And as I see the countryside being turned into a playground for the urban petit bourgeois and their strength through joy children...the cyclists and the ramblers.......and millions of animals destroyed in brutal ways by white suited and masked governemnt thugs and burned on funeral pyres the stench of which still fills my nostrils, and our traditional agriculture being replaced by seas of rape for bio fuel companies; sorry....I just see fascism.

 

And from where did these strange ideas that now run our land originate more latterly? California. How did they end up there I wonder?

 

 

Anyway; another "history" that you will be unaware about in California concerning your "peave and love" budhism we had another taste of once. Yes our retribution was harsh. It needed to be:

 

Quoting a buddhist source so you don't acuse me of bias (www.tibet.ca)

In the summer of 1900 the failing

Chinese Ching dynasty put its trust in the powers of the popularist "Boxer"

rebellion. This quasi-mystical group, rooted in popular Buddhism and Taoism,

believed that it could expel all foreigners from China and halt the decline of

imperial China. For over two months they besieged all the foreign legations in

Peking and massacred Chinese Christians and Western missionaries throughout the

land.

 

In the summer of 1900 the failing

Chinese Ching dynasty put its trust in the powers of the popularist "Boxer"

rebellion. This quasi-mystical group, rooted in popular Buddhism and Taoism,

believed that it could expel all foreigners from China and halt the decline of

imperial China. For over two months they besieged all the foreign legations in

Peking and massacred Chinese Christians and Western missionaries throughout the

land.

 

But all these things have roots, continuity and change...the thing is to spot them.

Nazism has its roots in Aryan volk culture, and therefore buddhism. Because of Himmler's "enightened" state and buddhism, he came up with the idea of animal rights. Hitler often talked about "shagri la" being an enlightened place of healthy people in harmony.

Okay. So when these ideas start cropping up again; I just notice where they are from okay? And am frightened about where they are going; and allances between various groups whther they have an ultimate vision of stone age or shangri la its the VISIOSN I have issues with. Because NOBODY has the right to force their vision and morality on anyone else.

 

Things like smoking and hunting and bans on imprts of sealskin and stopping people wearing bukhas and fostering fair trade for supermarkets to crush the European agricultural base still further while creating a drone scoiety and allowing jerks like Wtsaon to act as pirates of moral imperialism have many many historical parallels. In the END they have a nigh of the longknives or turn on the Pirates because what Watson should really be doing instead of stopping Japan killing a couple of Whales is addressing the expolitation of gas and oil in our seas and creating dead areas; and stopping illegal hauls of fish bought by supermarkets while his countrymen lie idle; their communities broken. Eventually he will realise the real enemies are his own paymasters and the governemnts that pat his back. And then they will stop him; because stopping Japanese coastal communities killing a few whales is one thing; returning to the stone age another.

 

Perosnally OFF; I prefer the stone age too. But in the stone age; we killed whales and hunted fox and wore fur. We didn't rip the earth apart and destroy vast habitats to turn a buck for people to get fat and live as parasitic but healthy drones in a utopian Metropolis.

Edited by Guest
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If people want to talk about Politics Or End Times Retoric Why Come Here Were Fur Lovers?

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Because sadly Madison there are certain people in our government who want to ban fur and there are rather a lot of them; and they have a frightening vision, and co operate with other groups who have frightening visions.

 

Some think for instance all domestic animals....cats horses, dogs sheep cows...should be neutered rather than exploited by man. That suits people who look enviously at the land that will be liberated for development as a result of getting rid of the animals.

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