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Contiuation of "fur sighting today"


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(Don't worry Mods (and anyone else who cant be bothered to read this) - just go to point 4 at the bottom!!)


I take your points entirely ToS, but these are politico/economic arguments. We have in fact gone way beyond that into biological imperatives. Vis there are too many individuals of the species Homo sapiens, consuming too many of the world resources. Period.


ALL the planetry problems we have at the moment would disappear completely if population numbers were brought down to levels that are able to maintain sustainable balance with the renewable resources of the planet.


Yes I agree, economically it makes huge sense for immigration to add to the wealth of the country, and as the situation stands now, I welcome immigrants with open arms. Most of them do a great job, work really hard and by doing so generate respect as well as there own self respect. Something sadly lacking in a lot of Brits for the reasons you quoted.


BUT Biologically this country (and many other developed countries) are already unsustainable as self supporting nations. If all imports were stopped tomorrow, many people would soon starve in the UK. We have our wealth only by having a global footprint equivelent to four Great Britains worldwide. That means that for our wealth to continue we are parasitic on other countries, many of which are struggling to become developed. And this can only get worse unless population reduces. It has nothing to do with cutting energy emissions and all the othe gobblygoop that's forced down us. It's simply a matter of rspecting that the planet can only support an optimum population of any species.


The writing was on the wall this summer, but how many heeded it. There was NEVER a drought here in the South. A water shortage, yes, because too many people were using a resource that is finite. But a lack of water? - no


in the next hundred years the poulation of UK needs to reduce from 60m to 30m. It could be done painlessly with the right Guidance and encouragement from the right government.


Biologically it wont happen. It is a biological imperative to strive towards comfortable living in order to reproduce and propogate the species. The biological web of the planet however has very capable measures built into it to control out of control growth of a species. It can be seen happening all the time throughout evolution. We may run around doing this, doing that to firefight situations, but we are ultimately controlled by our own biological imperative. If it were any different from this we would not even be here now. We HAVE to conform to the dictates of the web of life in order to live. Simple.


Just four more brief points.


1. It's really worth spending some time here http://www.optimumpopulation.org/


2. We've only got a few decades of life. The planet is miraculous and wonderfull - just stop fighting things and enjoy it for christ's sake, we wont get another chance.


3. I'm not for one moment advocating genocide to reduce population numbers. That is the way of evil and madness. But populations can be changed over just a few generations by very natural means. (But because we are goverened by policies that only last at most one generation, this is unlikely to happen)


4. I'm a very slow typer. so I wont be writing an essay like this again on the Den (It wastes too much of my life time which I could be enjoying in other ways). So you Mods, you can all breathe a sigh of relief, smile, and enjoy a glass of wine in the knowledge that Ravens has finished !

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The big problem I have is eugenics.


WHO are those in society who get targetted by population control? The working class.


And to me they CAN be the strongest. The snivelling weak narrow minded petit bourgeois, envious of their freedom and lack of respect for deferred gratification, and that of the upper classes too; end up targetting them.


Already part of the problem with the lower classes having children young and not being able to afford them, is because we impose an education with a defered gratification ethos which is alien to them and then mollycoddle them.

SO yes; we do need to rduce population but we can't do it on grounds of class or race, or selective breeding.


So how do we do it? Simply by REWARDING them for NOT having children by withdrawing state help. It is NOT a right to have children unless you can afford to bring them up; and free of state interference and aid to this will liberate them. Having an education system based on instant gratification will also help....and it CAN be academic; no wonder when we give w/c kids drab vocational education they end up bored; I was myself. I learned math from betting; learned to read with DC comics; learned hsitory through war games and movies and digging up the garden looking for artefacts; learned biology trying to breed great crested newts and mucking about with ferrets, etc ect. Left school with 10 o levels 3 a levels and went on to get an honours degree without EVER doing revision. That is not because I am intelligent but because I taught myself. I also saw that my cousins who were breeding young couldn't go out clubbing every night. So I have never bred. Maybe one day.


And its all because I gave myself an education; a rigorous academic one.




It will take a long time that way but it would work. Imposing an unsuitable education alien to the working class (and upper class) mucks things up.


Added to this is the fact that years ago the w/c would breed in number because only a few would survive. Genetically they are superior actually in terms of strength. If man were racehorses we would breed out the middle class because they are weak; hence why they impose their values and culture on the rest of us.


Education, and the correct kind, is the way to address this problem but since governments never listen to educationalists that won't happen. So we get useless compansatory education, vocational education for jobs that are not required, and the ones that succeed in such a system become

drones to it: the 5 gcse kid in the bank or local government...the ones that tell you resistance is futile ; while the ones that say bollox to this and realise its crap end up not getting on and ending up in a council flat with 3 crying brats living of the state and smoking cannabis.



I remember when I was eight I was selected for going to a compensatory education class to have fairy stories cos we didnt have them at home. It was agross insult to someone whose grandad had him fluent in Kipling, nutty babysitter had him reading Byron and shelley, had read the bible from cover to cover and knew all about Vietnam from dc comics. So I spat on the book aimed at four year olds and told the teacher it was an insult and that she was thick. She was.


Keep the government out of the way of the working class and watch them rise like lions after slumber; rather than lying on the sofa overweight surrounded by kids because they didn't get the system. Give them their aspirations back and realise they are different from Blair's. Hell; they will soon get back into furs aswell as other traditional working class values like respectability and work ethic.

And stop breeding for breedings sake because they are bored and disillusioned and see there is no real meritocracy: that is why they are fed reality tv and karaoke pop to make them content that you can get on in life by being a twat like Jade Goody.


Labour have created this working class. And now they are about to turn on them with eugenics. It's a disgrace. Tory paternalism was far better.


Sorry rant over but that is why I dont like ANY kind of social engineering; its the same as the race ghettos and 60s tower blocks. All Labour creations. hahhah and now due to 10 years of inaction over climate change we can even blame them for the weather now lol!


SO yes...we ned to reduce the population....not by sterilisation or eugenics but by withdrawal of state aid for having children, fertility treatments, etc. and a better education system based on the individual and academic. In fact, make them pay for it too so they appreciate it. People who don't have kids don't pay tax for education; simple. What a massive effect that would have on population growth.


I mean why should I pay tax to rear someone else's kids?


Tax breaks for horses; that is what we need lol! Kids are only pony substitutes anyway.

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Totally with you on that ToS.


Population control can never be a political thing , it's biological.


It shouldn't even be about control. Things tend to follow a natural path if the right conditions are presented.


So we need leaders with the wisdom to understand how to put in place the right conditions, then it will happen - over time.


We've come too far for a quick, one generation fix.


A wise leader is more likely to be one who dosen't immediately think "Right! I'm in power.I have CONTROL. I have POWER


Sadly they are very rare, that's why I think it wont happen, and the in built Biological population adjustment fail safes will kick in rather than H sapiens taking effective action

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Anthropologists believe that's why we have wars, followed by epidemics as a form of natural population control.


Don't ask me, I'm not smart enough to argue its finer points.

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I'm not so sure Tryxie T . I think you are smarter than you think.


Now you've done it!!! I'm literally having to fight bear off. I think that avatar has turned his mind or something


HAH! but he doesn't know my password yet

Whay's that?

NO! - go and fight with the cats


Bad bear - go and wash your mouth out, ....and while you're at it clean up those naughty thoughts about Bernadtte from your mind

CATS!....get him away from me

It's MY keyb............

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Over population is the main source of almost ALL our problems. A point I've brought up more than once.


The other problem is human stupidity and concern beyond the next meal. A genuine concern for many (most?) people of the world. Hunger short circuits rational thought.


Unfortunately there is no solution since we can't/won't stand up in the middle of this chaos and cope with the issues in a rational manner.


"Improvement" by attrition is the best we can hope for. Unfotunately the problems pile up on us faster than the diligent can provide solutions. Governments just make things worse.




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Actaully while you are all correct.....yes chimpanzees have "wars" too so there is an inbuilt population control re territory which other animlas...except another highly organised socail animal the ant has....do't generally have.


Alos yes Ravens and OFF....governments whatever they do will make things worse.



EXCEPT a good education system. We have a very narrow petit bourgeois view of education, in which 20% are eudcated to become good petit borgois citizens, and then the masses are thrown on the scrapheap of an apalling vocational education which leaves them ignorant. The top 5% have a good and academic private education; the sort of education that the state should provide for all but doesn't because an educated population is difficult to force into sevitude to it.


So for example out geography syllabus at school. We learn that KAzakstan has deposits of oil and ore, that Norway has fjords, and Canada and Brazil have massive forest. In Bilogy we learn that an animla has seven vital functions and that single celled animals can be viewed under a microscope. In history we learn that The Normans invade in 1066 and that WWII ended in 1945 after the NAzis were defeated. In languages we learn irregular verbs in french. In Art we learn how to mix colours and draw; if that. In physics we learn that iron filings are attracted to magnets and in chemistry thatmixing chemicals together makes test tubes blow up.

I maths we learn logarithms and in English we learn authors that echo a petit bourgois vie of literature. In these subjects the sole objective is to see if you can amass this knowledge and pass a series of tests on it before specilaising in the ones you are good at before taking your place in society.


In other words its bollox.


Education should be a liberator. It should be more like exploring a foreign country than climbing a ladder of pre determined goals.


SO in geography we should learn about waht the people of KAzakstan Canada Brazil and Norway are like and how they have come adapt to the geography of their areas; why and what it means that there are certain geogarphical characteristics there etc. That way, we would learn for example that The Bushmen of the Kalahari have managed to live without too much impact on nature for thousands of years and that hunting is a good lefestyle; and that we are the society that buggers up the planet.


In Biology we should see with our own eyes the relationship with plants and animlas is one of blance, as is acarnivore and predator; se the circle of life and recognise that death is life.


In history that feudalism was not a system which should be judged out of hand using modern scoialist VALUES< AND THAT NAzi society didn't arise out of pure evil but from social engineering to make society better (I am not saying that.... its what they thought; as Blair thinks). That history is about continuity and change and its study is dtective work that gives us a truth that may dispute and balance scientific evidence which has become the new priesthood of faith.


In languages we should learn latin and greek and from those learn EVERY language.

In physics the nature of the physical univers by observation on a wider scale; looking at the stars and the effects of newtons laws or einsteins theories on them . In Chemistry we should see what the periodical table MEANS to the physical world , and that it gives us the key to understanding reaction . In maths that patterns of numbers are a key to understanding that is important but not essential or real: it is a language nothing more: so animlas and native Americans have NO numerical systems BUT they see if there are few gazelle and hunt hare or few caribou and many wolf so hunt wolf(the latter that all the conservationist statisticians and their counting can't see).

In literature that language is a beautiful way of expressing what we see and feel and communicate those to others in form of written expression and ideas; and Art similarly in image.


And what do we have instead? Ignorance. Mass ignorance about human nature and nature itself. So that the only understanding we have is to take our place in servitude to the state, fornicate, reproduce, get drunk and destroy our natural surroundings. A DESIGN FOR LIFE.


Which is how governments like it.

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