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I am asking everybody on this site to make themselves familiar with the seal issue currently rearing up again, and write to your mps and media to ask for support for the Inuit seal trade.


For those of you who dont know, there was an awful ecological and econmic disaster 20 years ago when the Inuit were banned from hunting seal. Greenpeace even went as far as apologising officially to the Inuit for the dreadful damage caused to eco sysyems and Greenlands economy,

and for resulting pollution from alternative employment initiatives.


Please, please, go to www.cbc.ca/north/story/seal-mccartney09032006.html


May I also request that PEOPLE BOYCOTT ALL PAUL MCCARTNEY MUSIC AND HEATHER MILLS ENDORSED PRODUCTS and write to them pointing out the eco damaging errors of their ways and the RACISM of their actions (what do they want the Inuit to do...farm sheep in the Arctic?)


The Inuit President of the Circumpolar Conference, Aqqaluk Lynge, has

poited out that once again they must fight the ignorance of the animal rights lobby.


the Inuit have recently been acclaimed for their initiatives in conservation and for them then to have this crap all over again MUST be opposed. We have a moral obligation to help if we can.

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This is from the Countryside Alliance


1. Simon Hart on the animal rights movement


Last week Sir Paul McCartney revealed the driving force behind his opposition to hunting and his support for the animal rights movement. Apparently his inspiration was not a philosophical argument or scientific study, but the works of Walt Disney and in particular the film

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Thanks tryxie,

Yes it was I that brought that to the CA's attention.


Are you onside on the foxhunting issue too then? I dont hunt as my horse is nuts(he thinks he has to kill the hounds...he doesnt get it!) but I think the same conservation issues apply....to me the fox's best friend is the Hunt.

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Actually I don't support fox hunting, solely on the grounds that when/if the fox is caught it's torn apart by the hounds. On all other issues regarding hunting foxes, culling the weakest etc I agree with and support the hunt objectives. It's unlikely a fit and canny fox will get caught, I'm on its side.



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Folks I don't get the chance to get on the Den much any more due to admin duties but the moment that I saw this I knew how important that it was. So I took the liberty to make it sticky for awhile to keep it up top.


I would like to keep this strickly on the Inuit topic if possible. No problem posting on the Fox issue if you want to start another topic. I just think that it is extremely important that we keep this message very, very focused on the central issue.


Thanks Touch and All


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Agreed and thankyou very much.

I have just emailed the newspaper atricle and my support for the Inuit/

comdemnation Of Mccartney simplistic and racist views to a number of mps.

I suggest everybody do the same with their respective mps and senators etc.

Its hugely important that those with power realise that the arguments put forward by mccartney eta al are ignorant, evil and endager the whole arctic eco system which the Inuit have been part of for thousands of years. Also that not all the people that they represent are stupid.

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I havent bought a single Mcartney cd or dvd sense he went animal rights and I wont ever again.

Now if a friend has one and I burn a copy then thats differnt.


John & Yoko wore lots of furs and that is to be applauded in highest respects!

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Interesting story I once heard is that Linda used to wear a fur but Yoko always had a better one and that was the start of the friction that split them up...allegedly.


At one point Yoko was said to have had the biggest private collection of furs in the world.


Anyway yes. We should boycott animal rights people, their products and campaign relentlessly for people like the Inuit.


I had a letter back off david cameron this morning so they do take notice.

We must be as vocal and more effective in rational argument if we are ever to win back the high moral ground where we belong. It is us that value animals, not PETA.

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NOELLE CROMBIE. The Oregonian. Portland, Or.: Sep 15, 2005.




SUMMARY: Nicholas Ungar Furs is accused of selling coats and other items made from pelts of endangered or banned species


In March, James Stinebaugh walked into Nicholas Ungar Furs and asked the boutique owner for help selecting a fur for his wife.


Stinebaugh told Horst Grimm that he was in town on business, according to documents filed in federal court. He said he was shopping for an anniversary present and wanted something "exotic." Grimm, the shop owner, showed him a leopard coat. When Stinebaugh asked to see something made from seal fur, Grimm reached for a $4,500 coat hanging on a rack.


Stinebaugh, it turns out, was a special agent with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service on an undercover assignment to see if Nicholas Ungar Furs was peddling fur coats made from illicit animal pelts.


Grimm's shop is accused in federal court filings of selling coats and other items made from pelts of endangered or banned species, such as Alaska seals, jaguars and leopards.


Grimm is scheduled to appear at a change of plea hearing on Sept. 21. According to court records filed Wednesday, Grimm has agreed to pay a $40,000 fine. Half of that will go toward the World Wildlife Fund North American Endangered Species Trafficking program.


On Wednesday afternoon, sitting in his brightly lit boutique, Grimm, 71, said that the coats made from seal and leopard had been in his store for decades. One of the last remaining furriers in Portland, Grimm called his prosecution a "sign of the times" and added that he did not realize it was illegal for him to possess the coats, which he said were old but not used.


He said the leopard coat seized by authorities dated to 1949, and the seal coats predated the 1972 ban on the mammals.


He said the coats seized by federal authorities were not the products of recent poaching of endangered animals.


"There is no demand for this stuff," he said, explaining why the illicit furs had been in his shop for so long.


Prosecution of boutique owners for selling illegal fur coats is rare, but animal rights groups said the demand for such items, especially abroad, is high.


Andrea Cimino of the Humane Society of the United States said fur is popular among high-end fashion designers, and that popularity typically translates into an increase in illegal trafficking in animal pelts.


Grimm's company, U&S Fur Corporation, has been charged with misdemeanor violations of the Endangered Species Act and the Marine Mammal Protection Act. According to court records, federal agents began investigating the shop after getting a tip from an unidentified nonprofit group.


As part of the investigation, agents also visited Torso Vintages, which sells vintage clothing. The shop's owner, John Hadeed, has not been charged.


Court records say federal fish and wildlife agents in Portland learned in July that Torso Vintages had taken part in a New York fashion show and offered clothing made from leopard, ocelot and jaguar.


Later that month, Stinebaugh went into Torso Vintages, again pretending to shop. After the saleswoman showed the agent coats made from mink and monkey, the agent asked to see "big cat" items. According to an affidavit written by Stinebaugh, the woman brought out a coat made from ocelot fur. She told the agent the coat dated to the 1940s or 1950s. She also showed the undercover agent a 1940s or 1950s-era leopard coat.


While in the shop, Stinebaugh noted four coats made from jaguar, ocelot and leopard, as well as a leopard handbag and hat, according to his affidavit.


Richard Carlson, Hadeed's lawyer, said Wednesday that the allegations pertain to fur coats that are in some cases five decades old -- and predate the 1973 Endangered Species Act.


"Most people would have no idea that there is a problem in selling an old, 40- or 50-year-old coat," he said.


While fur remains fashionable in New York and other East Coast cities, its heyday in Portland has long since passed, said Grimm. He started working at Nicholas Ungar Furs as a furrier in 1959 when there were more than a dozen furriers and fur shops in Portland. He became part owner in 1979.


Today, visitors to Nicholas Ungar Furs encounter a locked gate at the shop entrance and a surveillance camera trained on the door.


Grimm said he is prepared to pay a fine for the violations.


"It's very sad, that is all I can say," said Grimm.


Noelle Crombie: 503-2767184; [email protected]


Credit: The Oregonian

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I talked to an animal rights supporter one time and asked her what these folks should do. It was a long time ago but the answer went something like "They should move south among us or live on fish". I won't even begin to go after the stupidity of that one! What so many people do not realize is that the worst part of the native issue was not the breaking of treaties. It was the destruction of their culture! And that is exactly what this type of thing is trying to do again.


Anyhow... to keep this on topic. First off, I do hope that people will still think about supporting this issue as it is indeed very important.


Secondly, I am removing the sticky from this message as I know folks don't like sticky messages that stay around too long and I am pledging to avoid that.

Thanks all


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It appears that Paul Mccartney is coming off worst in this argument and people are siding with the Inuit at last...are other people getting that impression too?

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