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Have we misunderstood what we knew as children?


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I have had this story inside for almost a year now. I knew it would take time to properly explain and edit. Today seems to be the day to tell this almost surreal event. Always write my long posts in the morning with a strong cup of coffee!


It is a topic that has been touched upon over the last year a few times. I remember in particular one thread on the old den that Piotr started.


First, I need to give you a little background information:


Last November, I had to go to a nearby town for an appointment. This was during a blizzard, and we had several feet of snow on the ground. So, I wore my very long, dark brown, longhair beaver. I love this fur. It is silky in texture, . . . and oh, so warm! Makes me feel like I am tucked into this wonderful layer of protection . . . like a nurturing envelope.


While I was there I decide to stop at Walmart to pick up a few things.


In reflecting upon this event, my trip was mid-day and during the week, so there were a lot of mom's with small children shopping.


I am a person that loves small children, but I find pets are usually better behaved. I will smile at a beautiful little child as I pass; but, I cannot resist a Golden Retriever! So, I am not one that usually interacts with small children when I am shopping. And, I honestly cannot remember having a child seek me out in all my resent years but once. Plus, shopping is not one of my favorite things. I just get in the store and out as quickly as possible. Although, Bob would argue that point!


Have you ever had something happen that occurred quickly and yet it had such an impact on you that the event replayed in your mind in snapshots? It is like in reflecting on the event, it turns into a slow playing slide-show and you are an actor and the observer?


I found myself with my head tilted to the side and my eyes bugging out as it unfolded. Before joining The Fur Den, this could have happened, and I would have never even noticed what was unfolding.


This is what happened in about a minute's time:


Bob and I turned our cart down the spice aisle and passed a lady with a little girl who seemed to be a larger than you would expect to have in cart seat. But, she was too young to be in school.


Have you ever tried to ignore a child that is trying to make an important point to you? First they will say it in a normal tone. And, the longer you ignore them, the more they will repeat their communication? And, with each repetition their tone gets more insistent and louder?


This is little girl first said to her mother in a normal tone, "Mommy, look at that beautiful coat!" Her Mother, who was busy shopping, glanced at me and kept shopping, ignoring her child's comments.


The little girl repeated the comment again, this time with more emotion and a little louder. Saying, "MOMMY!!! Look at the beautiful coat!" She was twisted completely around in her cart seat as I turned back to smile at her.


I was slowly walking forward as this very quick interaction occurred. As I turned back to look where I was going, there was an unattended cart in my path with a small little boy, maybe a year old. He was grinning ear-to-ear, so much so that he was about to lose his pacifier. This child had the look on his face that is one you see when a child has just seen something that he REALLY like. (. . . or, a male who is just fallen in lust with a new lady! )


I just about stumbled around his cart. I have never had this reaction from children before. Both of these children who were with different parents were completely taken by my presence. Then I realized it was the fur!!


I hope somehow I have communicated the event where you can see what I experienced. These children were reacting on an instinctual basis. They knew there was something about the fur they wanted to be near. They felt the appreciation, power and the attraction of the fur.


I will never forget that brief interaction. I will always believe that our love and attraction to fur is part of the genetic coding that we receive. And, just as the love of a sunset , . . . or a wonderful open fire is comforting beyond the actual event, I believe fur is as well.


Time and time again, I have seen people come into my shop and experience the power of fur for the first time. They are always shocked and amazed at their reaction. Now not everyone reacts to it this way; But, many do!


I have first hand experienced that fur is not just a fabric. It is much, much more. And, those that have forgotten, or never experienced this reaction, have lost out on this wonderful gift.


Can fur be a fetish? Of course! But, anything can be. But, does that mean my reaction to fur IS a fetish? I think not.


For me, my love of fur is nothing I want labeled with a negative, guilt provoking label. It is wonder, natural and normal. I feel so blessed to have experienced this wonderful gift from Nature.


(And, TOS, maybe I have a special appreciation since my great-grandmother was American Indian!! )



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I'll never forget the day I was babysitting this one little girl. She would have been about 8. We had stopped by the mall for a little bit, and she literally dragged me up to the 2nd floor of Marshall Fields so she could stare at and feel all their wonderful fur coats.


All the while I (being only 16) had to pretend I had no interest when inside I was dying to do exactly what she could do.


Ah well.. Kids do certainly have SOMETHING for fur, thats for sure.


I greatly enjoyed reading your post, Refur.

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I can imagine myself as that little boy, AND remember those moments to this day.


I have deep memories from early childhood and can remember any number of events like that from very early.


I KNOW children have these thoughts and feelings because I can remember them.


The feelings themselves are from deep within. Like the artistic thoughts and efforts of a child. An extension of their body, without mind-body divisions.




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wondrful story, I was that little boy. The power of fur has never left

and even getting stronger. I can remember trying my best to sit next

to the lady with the fur stole in church, just to be close to it not really

knowing anything but somekind of strong powerful sensations...just to

see it closely, maybe get a soft brush against my arm...I can

remember as young as 5 or 6 telling myself when I get older I want

lots of furs. I too feel blessed to have this obsession. The magical

mystical powers of fur have defintely shaped/guided my life, to the

very present moment. thank you for sharing.

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Yes, really a great story. Reminds me of the following:


Once I went to the cinema with my wife. She was wearing a coat with fur lining and fur cuffs made from white fox, extremely soft. We were standing in the queue to get our tickets and in front of us there was this young girl, about five or six years old. When she noticed the coat, she immediately started to touch the cuffs and feel it in her hands.


There were other moments where I realized that children forget their shyness when they get in touch with fur and really feel comfortable. I think it has to do with its outstanding tactile sensation which makes it different from most of the things they know so far.

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Not just children. I have often mentioned "The Touch" here and had others reply of the same. When wearing fur you will sometimes feel someone going by extra close so they can touch the fur. I have stood in a spot and had people put their hand on my back while they went by. In cases where they would not have needed to do that. It would be things you would not normally think of. Except that in summer it never happens. Only winter while in fur.


Great post indeed Linda.



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I too love the post, Linda! I think it just goes to shows once again that there are far more problem parents than problem kids!!!




PS - Let's hear it for golden retrievers!!! Mine (Sandy) seconds that... so does Meyers - her buddy who lives next door!

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When I was a child mum came home one day wearing a very nice 3/4 raccoon jacket. I was at the age of ten and when I saw this coat I immediately fell in love with it. I was jealous and wanted to wear it myself. When I had the opportunity I weared the coat at home striking the fur and cuddleing it. I wanted to have such a nice coat and I have many times my parents asked for it. They never gave me a fur. They said I was too young to wear fur.

Later when I was elder and the coat fitted me I have lend it many times from mum. I think I was at the age of 14 then. When i was wearing this raccoon I felt very feminin and happy, always butterflies in my stomac.


A few years later at the age of 16 I saw an illegal tigerhunt on the german TV. It was very excited and I watched it breathless. I saw that mighty tiger and I realised that when somebody wanted to have his pelt he really had no chance. It was very exciting to watch how this happened and I felt in stead of sorry for the tiger butterflies again in my stomac.


This must be the origin of my desire for pelts and rugs and my fascination how fur is harvested. From that day of I knew that one day I should have a rug of a mighty animal like a tiger or a bear. Till now I never have bought one but in future I certainly do.


Later at the agen of 24/25 when I earned my own money I have bought a silverfox.

When mum bought herself a mink she gave this raccoon to me and for all those reasons it is still one of my favs.



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This is as I have said befpre not only entirely normal, but probably and evolutionary necessity.

It is the fake "repulse" that older people learn, to be pc, that is the perversion.

ALL children are fascinated by fur and love it. They are innocent and captivated by it. Children are honest.


I usually say to people that do the fake repulse:

"what is the matter? Don't you like animals?"


Anybody who is that alienated from nature is truly perverse.

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I have read a lot about Antis on this site and it has just reminded me of my Auntie Mary. She had a red coat with black fur collar and cuffs that has a special place in my heart as it was the first ever garment with fur that i actually wore. I must have been about twelve and oh how my heart raced. I often cuddled furs in cloakrooms before and after that but I was in my thirties the next time i actually wore one. Auntie Mary was the only relation i can remember that actually owned any fur; a deprived childhood.

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As a child i think i had a quite a few of those moments as u just described Refur, when i saw a lady wearing a very nice fur, i couldn't help myself stearing at her, what still kinda happens now And i don't realy think i had other feelings then, then i have now when i see a woman in furcoat. The feelings are the same, the thoughts might be a bit different sometimes haha But that's because i did'nt know better when i was young, so i think it's wrong to say we misunderstood our feelings when we were young, we just didn't have the intelligence about live that we have now

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As someone with a fairly good memory, I can recall many moments and sightings from my childhood of staring in wonder at women in furs and being slightly jealous of other children walking hand in hand with their furclad mothers. I also remember other classmates admiringly stroking my teacher's musquash coat and enjoying the chance to wear fur stoles during school plays.


Surprisingly, such childrens' fascination with fur has been portrayed on film. Some of you may remember a 70s US children's information film called "The Fur Coat Club" which even aired here in the UK on a few rare afternoons. It was about two schoolgirls who like to touch the furs of people they meet in the street; they eventually sneak into a furriers to touch all of their wares before getting locked in and then manage to prevent a burglary of the store. It was made as a safety film to warn children of the dangers of the world and is quite a quaint piece even if it is rather dated now.



Mr Mockle

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Mr. M;


>The World of Henry Orient< Not at all dated though done in 1964.


A young girl runs around the whole movie in what is suppose to be a ratty fur but is a very nice one when you look carefully.


Practically every Peter Sellers movie contains fur a sI recal.



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Great post Linda! Yes there is something about the honesty of children that is amazing to me. They are free to expess their emotions without fear. When they see something funny they laugh out loud, when they see something beautiful they say "it's beautiful" with having to think what others might want to hear. After we left the furrier last spring, our 7 year old daughter asked if daddy would buy her a fur coat like mommy's, I said when you get a little older. I hope she dosen't change her mind!

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Thanks OFF for reminding me of Leslie Anne down in one of the Sellers Pink Panther movies. She smoked in it too which made it extra special for me. Does anyone know if these images ar on the net anywhere? I have seen one or two but I recall there was quite a bit of her in the coat.


Yes Bigfur you hit the nail on the head. I was on a train about 14 years ago and was having a drink with a gorgeous girl with a long blue fox. (yes I sat next to her, chatted her up and she responded). She was half German half Welsh; very glamorous. Then at Reading a mother and daughter got on the train. The kid was about 6. The mother looked at the blonde in the coat daggers, but had to sit next to us as they were the only two seats available.

Now first we were smoking, so that didn't go down well; but it was a smoking section. The mother waved her arms about and sat with a frown. the littlegirl couldn't take her eyes off the blonde, (Hiya Karen if you're out there!) and was sat next to her as I was sat opposite over the table. The mother was sat next to me.


You can guess what happened. The little one kept touching the fur; stroking it. Karen nodded to me as if to say look what she's doing. Eventually, the girl said

"Mummy it is soft. Can I gave a coat like that?"


The mother whispered across, but load enough for us to hear;

"No poppet that is very cruel"



The girl frowned at her mum, looked at Karen and smiled, then looked back at her mum

"Don't be silly mummy how can a coat be cruel?" and continued to stroke it.

The mother was furious, and remained silent for the rest of the journey. Karen talked to the girl until they got off in Bristol.


When they had got off the kid was waving and everything, with a big smile on her face.


I wouldn't mind betting that that girl, despite her mother's clear envy and indoctrination, now being about 20 years old, will be one of those girls you see out clubbing in a little blue fox jacket a la Kate Moss.


No I didn't get it on with Karen. I lost her phone number and she never rang me either Had a snog though before I got off. I had kissed her on the cheek as my stop came up, and then after waiting in the dorrway as the train paused, she came and joined me and, as the train was virually empty by then, we had a few minutes of passion. I think I lost the number in the frenzy.

As I recall she told me she liked making love in fur; so she may come here one day! She was an air stewardess; and had her uniform under the coat so it was doubly nice. Lufthansa too.


I wonder if any air hostesses uniforms have ever been designed with fur ?

Would be good for Finnair or Aeroflot I would have thought.....

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Linda - great story and so true. My 3 kids love our fox bed-spread. Even their cousin snuggled into it and my sister is vegetarian with animal right tendancies (best bit is when she visits and walks around 'daisy' our cow skin rug- ha ha ha)

My daughter wants my partners coats, perhaps the assumption is that kids are true to their feelings, some adults just prefer to ignore what is a natural tendancy.


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If only we could be kids again (but retain all the fur coats we have)


It's a shame that crap groups like PETA have to spoil the fun and brainwash half these children into Petulant Egotistical Tormented Adolescents

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Ciao amici,


Every year I'm enchanted yet again by the scenes that always emerge. The woman in church on a frigid Christmas Eve, wrapped in a thick full length golden-isle fox coat... Suddenly, a tiny hand pokes out between two tall wool-overcoated men and begins to stroke the fur, up and down. Up and down...the woman looks down and the hand briefly stops...until you notice the corner of a smile on her face, and the tiny hand, which is connected to an arm wearing a pink jacket, continues slowly feeling the fox coat, up and down.


Or a year later, at the Christmas parade in charming Victorian Cape May, New Jersey. Walking down the street, behind the crowd, I spot a woman in a big, fluffy full length blue fox standing with another middle-aged woman in a brown mink. Suddenly, a small child pushes her way out between the two fur coats and runs to the front to watch the parade with the rest of the kids. My friends and I ended up standing next to the women for the rest of the parade, for they were friendly group; after the festivities, I was wishing the woman in blue fox a Merry Christmas and managed a quick stroke of her extremely soft sleeve, as she laughed and pulled her collar around her face. Well, that little girl was watching the whole thing smiling...and as I turned to meet my friends, she walked right into the back of the fox coat, (!) burrowing her face into the fur and feeling it with her hands, up and down. Now that's a hug!


And of course, it doesn't just happen when it's cold outside. Marc Kaufman, if you're reading this, props to you for this next story. In June 2002, the day I went to pick up my full-length coyote coat at Kaufman Furs, NYC, one of the younger women shopping happened to bring her daughter about 6 years old, who sat on the couch next to me. The precocious girl stared at the long, white fox pelt sitting on the counter with such glaring intent that Marc, her Mother and I ended up trying four or five adult-sized fur coats on her. When my coyote coat arrived, the little girl's eyes widened like saucers. Her favorite fur? Full length blue fox coat with white fox collar, of course. Her mother's comment? "You'll be ready for the Oscars with that coat, baby!" Daughter's reply? "I'm ready now, Mama!".


I missed reading our discussions at the old Den on how fur powerfully affects children; to me, this is one of the most telling and significant topics that helps us understand where we came from. Yes, my friends, it's true, and especially evident in our modern-day Western culture. Children are almost always instinctually attracted to fur!


One of my elderly professor friends always talks about a theory of his that the further we get from birth, the further we get from purity of feeling and Absolute Enlightenment. Problem is, he says, we don't know how to communicate and thus use our Enlightenment because we just came out of the oven! I believe the stimulation of fur is incredibly healthy for our sensory development, and it makes sense to me that when children are drawn to fur, it's a call from that part of their brain that doesn't speak a learned language (i.e. English)...it speaks a language of the senses.


I'm sure that one of our psychologists could unravel this concept far better than I could, so I think that it's about time I reached back to the place all your great little stories have had me for the past couple days. Seven years ago, my verrrrry first post in the (original) Fur Den was an abridged history of my relationship with fur over twenty-four years. Well, now that thirty has hit the wind, I think it's time to re-tell the tale.


Until then,





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I don't want to think I killed the thread, but...anyone?


Today, the hot weather in Rome all but squashed the fur bug until I happened by a small pelliccia boutique on my way home from work. As I was walking by, a mother and her young son were walking the opposite direction...right as they passed the window full of furs, the little boy grinned and started speaking excitedly in Italian to his mom, pointing at the window. The mother kind of shrugged it off and kept walking, telling her son 'basta, basta' (enough).


I can't wait for winter...



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A great post Joe.


Keep us informed of all sightings and hope you get a little camera for being with you at all times !!


Also keep an eye out for old Italian vogues, particularly 80's ones, at any antique shops etc. They are usually fur packed!

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Great post, Linda. Your comments and observations are very astute.


Yes - I was that child, too, when I was a little boy. Experiences exactly like those children's set me off on the fur-loving route I've travelled (largely in secret) to this day. This included, at first, envy that only ladies and girls wore fur - it was strictly out of bounds for men and boys when/where I grew up (at least in mainstream, conservative culture). And then finally being "released" in my late teens, when I was finally able to buy my first fur coat. And now, 30 years later, I have 43 fur coats, and counting. You could say that I'm making up for those fur-less years in childhood / adolsecence.

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  • 5 months later...

Now that fur weather is upon us, it's time for one of my favorite threads to return to the top. Ciao, ragazzi...it's less than 24 hours until I return to Roma, and I'm enjoying my last fur day in New York.



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